# Sex Offender Registration shouldn't be for all sex crimes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 20, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067 "2004-07-20T21:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/81 "2004-07-27T12:01:30Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Cite for the “useless” part. Personally, I think it’s all but impossible to prove whether sex offender registration has stopped any child from being molested, but if you have better information, I’d love to here it. No cite, but how exactly is my behavior supposed to change because I know a person is listed on a public sex offender registry? Do I keep my child from going into the home of my new next door neighbor the sex offender? Of course, but I also don’t allow my child into the home of a new neighbor who’s not registered. Am I suspicious of the sex offender hanging around the playground or schoolyard by himself? Of course, but I’m also watching the non-sex offender hanging around the playground or schoolyard by himself. Just because someone is not on the registry doesn’t mean they are not an offender. Even without a registry, employers and organizations like Little League have the abilty to run background checks which would disclose convictions of sex offense. I suppose I could use the sex offender registry to decide not to leave my children with someone I know and trust who is listed- but how many people are going to check on someone they already know and trust? I suspect not too many, given my experience with people on parole for sex offenses. Even though their wives ,girlfriends, sisters etc knew they were on parole for a sex offense against a child, they were still willing to allow the sex offender to live in their home with their children. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/82 "2004-07-27T14:12:47Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > So, in your view, the purpose of criminal legislation is to give police and prosecutors something to do? I beg to differ. Differ away: I’ve got no idea how you’re deriving that “view” from what I said. It’s obviously a stupid and pointless view, and it’s insulting that you’re attributing it to me. It has nothing to do with what I said. I’m still curious whether you or anyone thinks I should’ve reported my ex-girlfriend’s ex-girlfriend for statutory rape. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/83 "2004-07-27T18:02:05Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Which brings us back to my prior questions to you about “THEIR” morality, which, incidentally, I never got a response to. Why do you seem to think the law against having sex with a 14 year old is based on a morality THEY are trying to stuff down your craw, whereas a law against having sex with a 13 year old isn’t? You really can’t have it both ways, despite the sound-bite quality of your post. > > Cite for the “useless” part. Personally, I think it’s all but impossible to prove whether sex offender registration has stopped any child from being molested, but if you have better information, I’d love to here it. > > Again, a cite on the "never done any good, please. And I think it is the sex offenders who “worry folks to death” and the registration is a response to that, not vice versa as you seem to imply. And as for the inclusion of “harmless” sex offenders, I think I dealt with that before. You never asked me this (I think you’re confusing me with another psoter), nor am I debating where “age of consent” belongs. I _am_ saying that strippers who were arrested for “indecent exposure” because they didn’t wear their pasties should not be on the “sex offender registry”, nor should any of the other in my long post, prior- such as a couple who marry but are cousins, a gay couple having sex in their own home, or a married couple having anal sex. The “Age of consent” is another debate entirely, and concerns how "mature’ someone should be before they can give an “informed consent”. Really, that debate shouldn’t be here, nor should you be bringing it up. Ah, but if we have a law that costs millions of dollars, massive amount of worrying, and loss of liberties to those registered- it’s up to those who support it to prove it has a value. I am simply saying that no value has been shown. Can you show that such a draconian law has worth? How many children have been saved? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/84 "2004-07-27T19:42:57Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Is there a debate here? > > FWIW, I’ve always considered current statutory rape laws to be fairly ludicrous, given how sexually active teens are. If people insist on having them, I think the oldest the age of consent should be is 16, since by about that time, most high school kids that are going to be sexually active before reaching “adulthood” are sexually active. For practical purposes, it really should be 15, but I just can’t see Middle America accepting the reality enough to swallow that. I’d say keep the statutory age of consent where it is, but give judges the leeway to impose an appropriate sentence. Consensual sex where one of the partners is underage obviously merits far less punishment than does nonconsensual rape. Traditionally, judges were given great lattitude here so they could sentence appriately; in the 1930 California Penal Code, the stipulated sentence for rape runs from one to fifty years. You can imagine for yourself the type of offender for whom the fifty-year sentence would be intended, and he’s not the 19 year old man engaging in consensual sex with a 17 year old girl. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/85 "2004-07-27T20:42:23Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > in the 1930 California Penal Code, the stipulated sentence for rape runs from one to fifty years. You can imagine for yourself the type of offender for whom the fifty-year sentence would be intended, and he’s not the 19 year old man engaging in consensual sex with a 17 year old girl. Sure–but again, should the woman in the sample story I gave above have gone to jail for even one year? Should she have had to spend a single night in jail? Should she have had to go on probation? Should she, for the rest of her life, been forced to disclose on job applications that she was a sexual predator? I definitely do not think so. She did nothing wrong\*, and police who would prosecute her would be overprosecuting. It’s not that these laws are overprotective, because nobody would have been protected by a prosecution in this case; on the contrary, two parties would have been grievously harmed by such a prosecution. I don’t know what the right answer is, but I know that a law that would send her to prison for a year would be the wrong answer. Daniel - Well, she was a total bitch to me, but that’s not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/86 "2004-07-28T18:38:20Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > You don’t think a 20 year old would want a sexual and romantic relationship from a 16 year old? They might, but it wouldn’t be wholesome and healthy. And thanks to **matt** for clearing that up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/87 "2004-07-28T18:44:06Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > They might, but it wouldn’t be wholesome and healthy. Do you mean, by definition it wouldn’t, or do you mean that there’s some evidence it wouldn’t be healthy? And do you have evidence that it’d be so unhealthy that the 20-year-old ought to do jail time because of it? Or, as in my example, the 22-year-old? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/88 "2004-07-29T00:49:41Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > They might, but it wouldn’t be wholesome and healthy. If you have evidence, please don’t hesitate to share it. If not, may I remind you that not everyone shares your particular hangups? Calling sex between a 20 and 16 year old unhealthy and unwholesome carries no more weight than calling gay sex unhealthy and unwholesome if all you have to back it up is your own moral outrage. You wanted to know what a 20 year old guy would want from a 16 year old girl, and now you know: the same thing he’d want from a 20 year old girl. You can make your own judgments about that, but remember, your personal judgments are only important to you. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/89 "2004-07-29T17:02:52Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Calling sex between a 20 and 16 year old unhealthy and unwholesome carries no more weight than calling gay sex unhealthy and unwholesome if all you have to back it up is your own moral outrage. Well, there was [post 68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5105223&postcount=68) in this very thread. There is also [this](http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3430402.html): > [@](#): > > The odds of intercourse among 13-year-old females with a partner six years older are more than six times the odds among 13-year-old females with a same-age partner (odds ratio, 6.4), while 17-year-old females with partners six years older have about twice the odds of intercourse when compared with those who have a same-age partner (2.1). > > Young adolescent females with substantially older partners are much more likely than their peers to have sex with their partner, which exposes them to the risks of pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. Do you want 15 and 13 year olds getting impregnated with impunity by men in their 20’s? I don’t. and [here](http://www.teenhealthfx.com/answers/Sexuality/12291.html) is some good advice: > [@](#): > > One other thing: We are a little bit concerned about the difference in age between you and this man. At 18, you are an adult, and neither of you is doing anything illegal. However, a relationship with someone twice your age can be complicated. > > Look at it this way: when you are the age he is now, you’ll have experienced many more relationships than you have at present, and you’ll have matured a great deal. Think about whether or not you’d be interested in an intimate relationship with someone who is 18 at that time. You and that person would be in very different stages in life. Exactly. > [@Mr2001](#): > > You wanted to know what a 20 year old guy would want from a 16 year old girl, and now you know: the same thing he’d want from a 20 year old girl. You can make your own judgments about that, but remember, your personal judgments are only important to you. I admitted as much to **Mockingbird** already. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/90 "2004-07-29T17:53:18Z")
**kung fu lola** , I’m not sure when we went from 16 and 20 year olds to 13 and 20 year olds, or 18 and 36 year olds. Do your same arguments apply with the former relationship? And tell me if I should bug off, if you’re not willing to answer my question about the 16-year-old ex-girlfriend and the 22-year-old woman she began dating, but I’m genuinely curious what you think about it, and about what I should have done or would have been able to do in the situation, and behaved in an ethical fashion. I figure that since it’s an actual event rather than a hypothetical, it’s worth discussing :). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/91 "2004-07-29T19:49:27Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Well, there was [post 68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5105223&postcount=68) in this very thread. That post proves that… sex can lead to pregnancy? > [@](#): > > There is also [this](http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3430402.html): That says that teens are more likely to have sex with an older partner than a younger partner (which probably explains your first cite). It says nothing about whether such sex is healthy or wholesome. > [@](#): > > Do you want 15 and 13 year olds getting impregnated with impunity by men in their 20’s? I don’t. I don’t want anyone getting impregnated with impunity by anyone, but that has nothing to do with age. Unless things have changed since I last checked, pregnancy is a possible side effect of sex no matter how old the (postpubescent) participants are, and contraception works for teens as well as adults. > [@](#): > > and [here](http://www.teenhealthfx.com/answers/Sexuality/12291.html) is some good advice: While that might be good advice, it still doesn’t back up your point. And, of course, it refers to an 18 year old and an older partner, not a young teen. ---
**Author:** ![EmmeeJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/838e76/32.png) [@EmmeeJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmmeeJ)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/92 "2004-07-29T23:48:37Z")
Actually, there are laws that state that an 18 yr old can have sex with a 17 yr old. There is a two year leeway, at least in IL. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/93 "2004-07-30T20:56:30Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > That post proves that… sex can lead to pregnancy? No, it proves that in relationships where an adult is involved with a teenager, pregnancy is more likely to occur. Teen motherhood is the root of many problems in society. Stamp out teen motherhood, and you can take a bite out of larger problems like poverty. The advice column was posted to show that I am not the only person in the world who wonders about an older person who acts on their desire to have sex with a much younger person. Do you really not question the motives of adults who seek out relationships with much younger people? ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/94 "2004-07-30T23:42:23Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > No, it proves that in relationships where an adult is involved with a teenager, pregnancy is more likely to occur. Teen motherhood is the root of many problems in society. Stamp out teen motherhood, and you can take a bite out of larger problems like poverty. Indeed. But you seem to be confusing stamping out teen motherhood with stamping out teen sex. I’ve been sexually active since I was a teenager, and I’ve never made a mother out of anyone. Clearly I’ve been doing something right. Sex education is woefully inadequate in many places, though. I’d rather see my tax dollars spent educating kids to avoid becoming parents than arresting guys who have consensual sex with their younger girlfriends. > [@](#): > > The advice column was posted to show that I am not the only person in the world who wonders about an older person who acts on their desire to have sex with a much younger person. Do you really not question the motives of adults who seek out relationships with much younger people? Not generally. My father is married to a woman who was less than 2/3 of his age at the time. If a 20 year old dates a 16 year old because he thinks she’s cute, that’s fine. If he does it because he has trouble relating to older girls, that’s sad, but still no cause for alarm. If he does it because he thinks he can force his will on her, he’s a creep and possibly a rapist. I can’t make that judgment about all 20 year olds who date 16 year olds in general, because everyone has different reasons for the things they do. It’s like, say, someone who withdraws $10,000 cash from a bank. Most people don’t make such big withdrawals, and they don’t use cash for such big transactions. Do you question his motives? Maybe he’s using the cash to pay a hit man, or buy a block of coke… or maybe to help him negotiate because he’s buying a used car. It would be stupid to put him in jail just on the presumption that his motives are wicked. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/95 "2004-07-31T00:22:36Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > No, I was specifically talking about relationships between teenagers and adults. To claim I said otherwise is dishonest. No, it isn’t. You are so entrenched in your finger shaking and condemnation I don’t think you even see what you are saying anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/96 "2004-07-31T01:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The odds of intercourse among 13-year-old females with a partner six years older are more than six times the odds among 13-year-old females with a same-age partner (odds ratio, 6.4), while 17-year-old females with partners six years older have about twice the odds of intercourse when compared with those who have a same-age partner (2.1). > > Young adolescent females with substantially older partners are much more likely than their peers to have sex with their partner, which exposes them to the risks of pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases. This looks suspiciously like one of those publications that treat pregnancy as a disease and propose abstinence as the only method of contraception. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/97 "2004-07-31T05:14:04Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > This looks suspiciously like one of those publications that treat pregnancy as a disease and propose abstinence as the only method of contraception. Especially considering the use of phrases like these: > [@](#): > > Nearly one-half of respondents (43%) reported having had sexual intercourse with their romantic partner, indicating that having a romantic relationship involves a **high risk of sexual activity**. > … > Our findings should be interpreted with caution. Although they support the idea that a romantic relationship between a young adolescent female and an older male is **risky** , we cannot determine the causal nature of the association. > … > Sexuality and health education programs in schools should be designed with the realization that they may be reaching only half of a couple that is at **high risk for sexual activity**. Would a study of transportation methods in urban vs. rural areas talk about someone at “high risk of riding the subway to work”? ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/98 "2004-07-31T14:02:37Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > Indeed. But you seem to be confusing stamping out teen motherhood with stamping out teen sex. Teen sex is fine between teens, but it remains that teen girls who have sex with older men are less likely to use contraception. What kind of effect do you think that has on teen pregnancy? Again I refer you to the _Salon_ article. I have mentioned this argument to most of my friends off-board, and they can’t believe you’re actually arguing that there is nothing wrong with adults having sex with teenagers. It’s just so… _counter-intuitive_. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067/99 "2004-07-31T20:38:49Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Teen sex is fine between teens, but it remains that teen girls who have sex with older men are less likely to use contraception. What kind of effect do you think that has on teen pregnancy? I noticed that in one of the articles you linked, though I didn’t comment on it. It is indeed disturbing, but doesn’t lead me to think sexual relationships between teens and adults are inherently bad. First, we don’t know the causation. Are more reckless teens driven to older men, or do older men somehow discourage the use of contraception? In other worse, if those girls were unable to find older men, would they simply have unprotected sex with teen guys instead? Second, as I said before: I’d rather see my tax dollars spent educating kids to avoid becoming parents than arresting guys who have consensual sex with their younger girlfriends. If the problem is that teens who have sex with older partners don’t use contraception, the solution is to teach them about and provide them with contraception. > [@](#): > > I have mentioned this argument to most of my friends off-board, and they can’t believe you’re actually arguing that there is nothing wrong with adults having sex with teenagers. It’s just so… _counter-intuitive_. That’s nice. Can they argue your position better than you can, or am I just supposed to think they’re right because they’re your friends? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-offender-registration-shouldnt-be-for-all-sex-crimes/256067.md?page=4)