No cite, but how exactly is my behavior supposed to change because I know a person is listed on a public sex offender registry? Do I keep my child from going into the home of my new next door neighbor the sex offender? Of course, but I also don’t allow my child into the home of a new neighbor who’s not registered. Am I suspicious of the sex offender hanging around the playground or schoolyard by himself? Of course, but I’m also watching the non-sex offender hanging around the playground or schoolyard by himself. Just because someone is not on the registry doesn’t mean they are not an offender. Even without a registry, employers and organizations like Little League have the abilty to run background checks which would disclose convictions of sex offense. I suppose I could use the sex offender registry to decide not to leave my children with someone I know and trust who is listed- but how many people are going to check on someone they already know and trust? I suspect not too many, given my experience with people on parole for sex offenses. Even though their wives ,girlfriends, sisters etc knew they were on parole for a sex offense against a child, they were still willing to allow the sex offender to live in their home with their children.
Differ away: I’ve got no idea how you’re deriving that “view” from what I said. It’s obviously a stupid and pointless view, and it’s insulting that you’re attributing it to me. It has nothing to do with what I said.
I’m still curious whether you or anyone thinks I should’ve reported my ex-girlfriend’s ex-girlfriend for statutory rape.
Daniel
You never asked me this (I think you’re confusing me with another psoter), nor am I debating where “age of consent” belongs. I am saying that strippers who were arrested for “indecent exposure” because they didn’t wear their pasties should not be on the “sex offender registry”, nor should any of the other in my long post, prior- such as a couple who marry but are cousins, a gay couple having sex in their own home, or a married couple having anal sex. The
“Age of consent” is another debate entirely, and concerns how "mature’ someone should be before they can give an “informed consent”. Really, that debate shouldn’t be here, nor should you be bringing it up.
Ah, but if we have a law that costs millions of dollars, massive amount of worrying, and loss of liberties to those registered- it’s up to those who support it to prove it has a value. I am simply saying that no value has been shown. Can you show that such a draconian law has worth? How many children have been saved? Cite?
I’d say keep the statutory age of consent where it is, but give judges the leeway to impose an appropriate sentence. Consensual sex where one of the partners is underage obviously merits far less punishment than does nonconsensual rape. Traditionally, judges were given great lattitude here so they could sentence appriately; in the 1930 California Penal Code, the stipulated sentence for rape runs from one to fifty years. You can imagine for yourself the type of offender for whom the fifty-year sentence would be intended, and he’s not the 19 year old man engaging in consensual sex with a 17 year old girl.
Sure–but again, should the woman in the sample story I gave above have gone to jail for even one year? Should she have had to spend a single night in jail? Should she have had to go on probation? Should she, for the rest of her life, been forced to disclose on job applications that she was a sexual predator?
I definitely do not think so. She did nothing wrong*, and police who would prosecute her would be overprosecuting. It’s not that these laws are overprotective, because nobody would have been protected by a prosecution in this case; on the contrary, two parties would have been grievously harmed by such a prosecution.
I don’t know what the right answer is, but I know that a law that would send her to prison for a year would be the wrong answer.
Daniel
- Well, she was a total bitch to me, but that’s not illegal.
They might, but it wouldn’t be wholesome and healthy.
And thanks to matt for clearing that up.
Do you mean, by definition it wouldn’t, or do you mean that there’s some evidence it wouldn’t be healthy? And do you have evidence that it’d be so unhealthy that the 20-year-old ought to do jail time because of it?
Or, as in my example, the 22-year-old?
Daniel
If you have evidence, please don’t hesitate to share it. If not, may I remind you that not everyone shares your particular hangups?
Calling sex between a 20 and 16 year old unhealthy and unwholesome carries no more weight than calling gay sex unhealthy and unwholesome if all you have to back it up is your own moral outrage.
You wanted to know what a 20 year old guy would want from a 16 year old girl, and now you know: the same thing he’d want from a 20 year old girl. You can make your own judgments about that, but remember, your personal judgments are only important to you.
Well, there was post 68 in this very thread.
There is also this:
Do you want 15 and 13 year olds getting impregnated with impunity by men in their 20’s? I don’t.
and here is some good advice:
Exactly.
I admitted as much to Mockingbird already.
kung fu lola, I’m not sure when we went from 16 and 20 year olds to 13 and 20 year olds, or 18 and 36 year olds. Do your same arguments apply with the former relationship?
And tell me if I should bug off, if you’re not willing to answer my question about the 16-year-old ex-girlfriend and the 22-year-old woman she began dating, but I’m genuinely curious what you think about it, and about what I should have done or would have been able to do in the situation, and behaved in an ethical fashion.
I figure that since it’s an actual event rather than a hypothetical, it’s worth discussing :).
Daniel
That post proves that… sex can lead to pregnancy?
That says that teens are more likely to have sex with an older partner than a younger partner (which probably explains your first cite). It says nothing about whether such sex is healthy or wholesome.
I don’t want anyone getting impregnated with impunity by anyone, but that has nothing to do with age. Unless things have changed since I last checked, pregnancy is a possible side effect of sex no matter how old the (postpubescent) participants are, and contraception works for teens as well as adults.
While that might be good advice, it still doesn’t back up your point. And, of course, it refers to an 18 year old and an older partner, not a young teen.
Actually, there are laws that state that an 18 yr old can have sex with a 17 yr old. There is a two year leeway, at least in IL.
No, it proves that in relationships where an adult is involved with a teenager, pregnancy is more likely to occur. Teen motherhood is the root of many problems in society. Stamp out teen motherhood, and you can take a bite out of larger problems like poverty.
The advice column was posted to show that I am not the only person in the world who wonders about an older person who acts on their desire to have sex with a much younger person. Do you really not question the motives of adults who seek out relationships with much younger people?
Indeed. But you seem to be confusing stamping out teen motherhood with stamping out teen sex.
I’ve been sexually active since I was a teenager, and I’ve never made a mother out of anyone. Clearly I’ve been doing something right. Sex education is woefully inadequate in many places, though. I’d rather see my tax dollars spent educating kids to avoid becoming parents than arresting guys who have consensual sex with their younger girlfriends.
Not generally. My father is married to a woman who was less than 2/3 of his age at the time.
If a 20 year old dates a 16 year old because he thinks she’s cute, that’s fine. If he does it because he has trouble relating to older girls, that’s sad, but still no cause for alarm. If he does it because he thinks he can force his will on her, he’s a creep and possibly a rapist. I can’t make that judgment about all 20 year olds who date 16 year olds in general, because everyone has different reasons for the things they do.
It’s like, say, someone who withdraws $10,000 cash from a bank. Most people don’t make such big withdrawals, and they don’t use cash for such big transactions. Do you question his motives? Maybe he’s using the cash to pay a hit man, or buy a block of coke… or maybe to help him negotiate because he’s buying a used car. It would be stupid to put him in jail just on the presumption that his motives are wicked.
No, it isn’t.
You are so entrenched in your finger shaking and condemnation I don’t think you even see what you are saying anymore.
This looks suspiciously like one of those publications that treat pregnancy as a disease and propose abstinence as the only method of contraception.
Especially considering the use of phrases like these:
Would a study of transportation methods in urban vs. rural areas talk about someone at “high risk of riding the subway to work”?
Teen sex is fine between teens, but it remains that teen girls who have sex with older men are less likely to use contraception. What kind of effect do you think that has on teen pregnancy? Again I refer you to the Salon article.
I have mentioned this argument to most of my friends off-board, and they can’t believe you’re actually arguing that there is nothing wrong with adults having sex with teenagers. It’s just so… counter-intuitive.
I noticed that in one of the articles you linked, though I didn’t comment on it. It is indeed disturbing, but doesn’t lead me to think sexual relationships between teens and adults are inherently bad.
First, we don’t know the causation. Are more reckless teens driven to older men, or do older men somehow discourage the use of contraception? In other worse, if those girls were unable to find older men, would they simply have unprotected sex with teen guys instead?
Second, as I said before: I’d rather see my tax dollars spent educating kids to avoid becoming parents than arresting guys who have consensual sex with their younger girlfriends. If the problem is that teens who have sex with older partners don’t use contraception, the solution is to teach them about and provide them with contraception.
That’s nice. Can they argue your position better than you can, or am I just supposed to think they’re right because they’re your friends?