# Sex robots for Incels? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 12, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783 "2018-07-12T15:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/281 "2018-07-21T20:45:01Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Every time I think this thread can’t get more offensive, I’m proven wrong. You and I are so rarely in agreement but man oh man… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/282 "2018-07-21T20:49:43Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If dolls help single men cope with their situations, then I’m reluctant to judge that as bad, even if they are delusional. > > The guy in the video doesn’t truly strike me as a hopeless case, though. It does make me wonder if his glomming onto this doll means he’s effectively killing any chance of having the family he desires. Why would he go out of his way to pursue or entertain the interest of a real woman (or even guy friends), if in his mind he owes all this fidelity, attention, and love to “Jenny”? That would be the problem with delusion: men investing their time and emotions into inanimate objects that in the long haul will not be there for them when they are old, in failing health, and in need of non-imaginary emotional support. And if he had already invested time and energy into trying to pursue or entertain the interest of a real woman, and has failed? How long and how much investment does he have to make before he may make a decision to give his attentions to something that at least won’t rebuff them? > [@raventhief](#): > > Yet, we have this thing called consciousness. A woman knows if she has had surgery that will render her permanently infertile, or gone through menopause, as just two examples. But you seem to think that such a woman would not resent sexual enslavement, as she is aware that she will not have offspring from the sexual abuse. I’m not sure how that would work. Sure, the fact that your children may end up with the same circumstances as you may make things worse, but it’s not like being childless makes any sort of slavery better. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/283 "2018-07-21T20:52:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Every time I think this thread can’t get more offensive, I’m proven wrong. I don’t think it’s offensive, if you understand the difference between [Ultimate and Proximate Causation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation). > [@Wikipedia](#): > > A proximate cause is an event which is closest to, or immediately responsible for causing, some observed result. This exists in contrast to a higher-level ultimate cause (or distal cause) which is usually thought of as the “real” reason something occurred > > Ultimate causation explains traits in terms of evolutionary forces acting on them. > Example: female animals often display preferences among male display traits, such as song. An ultimate explanation based on sexual selection states that females who display preferences have more vigorous or more attractive male offspring. > Proximate causation explains biological function in terms of immediate physiological or environmental factors. > Example: a female animal chooses to mate with a particular male during a mate choice trial. A possible proximate explanation states that one male produced a more intense signal, leading to elevated hormone levels in the female producing copulatory behaviour. SamuelA is looking at the situation as a matter of Ultimate Causation , whereas you may be looking at it from a point of view of Proximate Causation. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/284 "2018-07-21T20:59:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Every time I think this thread can’t get more offensive, I’m proven wrong. And it continues to descend. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/285 "2018-07-21T21:06:03Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Plenty of anecdotal evidence from doll owners suggest that it does satisfy their desires. I realize that’s not the same as rigorous peer reviewed scientific study, but it’s enough to convince me that it’s worth trying in my own life, and that this is topic that should be empirically researched to see whether it has therapeutic value. Loneliness is an emotional state. Closeness and connectedness ameliorate that state. Sex is the vehicle through which men are supposed to obtain that intimacy and connectedness and remain happy and healthy. They tend not to stay happy or healthy if they’re not getting those positive interactions. And the average man would rather nail his own tongue to the floor than share this knowledge and may not even possess it, perhaps you’ve noticed. But yeah, what you’re saying makes sense once you leave the quasi-political shit out of it and focus on what is actually beneficial. If the doll is merely a sex _aid_ it wouldn’t be any more effective than masturbation; you would want some kind of role play bonding that approximates a loving partner. And obviously a lot of people can do that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/286 "2018-07-21T21:21:16Z")
> [@Tee](#): > > If the doll is merely a sex _aid_ it wouldn’t be any more effective than masturbation; . Don’t disagree with most of the rest of your post, but this puzzles me. Sex aids make masturbation more effective, that’s their designed and intention, else-wise, they would not exist. So, yeah, I see a sex doll or even robot as simply a sex/masturbation aid, but that doesn’t mean that it cannot improve said sex/masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/287 "2018-07-21T21:24:19Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I don’t think it’s offensive, if you understand the difference between [Ultimate and Proximate Causation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation). > > SamuelA is looking at the situation as a matter of Ultimate Causation , whereas you may be looking at it from a point of view of Proximate Causation. Good god, you cannot be fucking serious. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/288 "2018-07-21T21:34:51Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I don’t think it’s offensive, if you understand the difference between [Ultimate and Proximate Causation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation). > > SamuelA is looking at the situation as a matter of Ultimate Causation , whereas you may be looking at it from a point of view of Proximate Causation. Seriously, is this supposed to be a joke or cute or something? You know there are actual sex slaves in the real world, right? You’ve heard of human trafficking, right? They are suffering deeply and this glib response is funny to you? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/289 "2018-07-21T22:27:41Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I don’t think it’s offensive, if you understand the difference between [Ultimate and Proximate Causation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation). > > SamuelA is looking at the situation as a matter of Ultimate Causation , whereas you may be looking at it from a point of view of Proximate Causation. It’s offensive if you have empathy. Empathy is also necessary for successful human relationships. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/290 "2018-07-21T22:31:23Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > And if he had already invested time and energy into trying to pursue or entertain the interest of a real woman, and has failed? Its a good question and I’m not going to pretend I have all the answers. But from his account, it seems the guy doesn’t have a hard time forming relationships; successfully maintaining them is the issue. What’s behind that and is it something a therapist might help with? He never mentioned consulting with a professional; it just seemed like he concluded that he was not made for relationships so a doll was the best and only alternative. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/291 "2018-07-21T22:37:52Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > A _human_ sex slave resents being enslaved because it reduces the probability that her children survive to reproduce. A human sex slave is a living, breathing person who is more than her sex organs. A person. Not a program. Not an incubator for the next generation. She is a person. Her desire not to be raped and enslaved is the desire of all living, breathing people not to be tortured. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/292 "2018-07-21T22:43:22Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Seriously, is this supposed to be a joke or cute or something? > > You know there are actual sex slaves in the real world, right? You’ve heard of human trafficking, right? They are suffering deeply and this glib response is funny to you? I didn’t take it as glib. There are sex slaves. It doesn’t minimize their suffering to try and explain why human beings find captivity and slavery to be so repugnant. I don’t know if I buy the evolutionary explanation, but I don’t find it offensive to speculate on it. And if we could create robots that were convincing replicas of actual people, we could leave that out of their psychological makeup. I think there’s an interesting debate about whether we should, but it’s separate from the issue of human sex trafficking. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/293 "2018-07-21T22:50:50Z")
Never mind ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/294 "2018-07-21T23:03:24Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I didn’t take it as glib. There are sex slaves. It doesn’t minimize their suffering to try and explain why human beings find captivity and slavery to be so repugnant. I don’t know if I buy the evolutionary explanation, but I don’t find it offensive to speculate on it. Gosh, lady, you are just mad when that dude rapes you repeatedly because it’s not your ideal evolutionary situation. How about if he promises to keep your babies? Wait, did I say something wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/295 "2018-07-21T23:16:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sex aids make masturbation more effective, that’s their designed and intention, else-wise, they would not exist. Not entirely, couples use them too. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, yeah, I see a sex doll or even robot as simply a sex/masturbation aid, but that doesn’t mean that it cannot improve said sex/masturbation. My comment is based on post #26. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/296 "2018-07-21T23:28:28Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > Gosh, lady, you are just mad when that dude rapes you repeatedly because it’s not your ideal evolutionary situation. How about if he promises to keep your babies? Wait, did I say something wrong? “Not your ideal evolutionary situation” was, literally, a matter of life and death. Far from minimizing it, the way we handled things like that, and still handle them, are a large part of why we exist. Standing on the edge of a cliff is not my ideal evolutionary situation. I’m not as phobic about it as some people, but I’d _never_ force it on somebody who didn’t want it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/297 "2018-07-21T23:42:29Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > “Not your ideal evolutionary situation” was, literally, a matter of life and death. Far from minimizing it, the way we handled things like that, and still handle them, are a large part of why we exist. > > Standing on the edge of a cliff is not my ideal evolutionary situation. I’m not as phobic about it as some people, but I’d _never_ force it on somebody who didn’t want it. I don’t think you’re managing to convey any real recognition of the suffering of someone being repeatedly raped. It’s really not like you standing on the edge of a cliff that you’re not as phobic about as some people. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/298 "2018-07-21T23:46:08Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I don’t think you’re managing to convey any real recognition of the suffering of someone being repeatedly raped. Did you miss the parts where I said it was “repugnant”, and “life and death”? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/299 "2018-07-22T00:54:53Z")
Reducing the suffering of a sex slave to evolutionary resentment is, frankly, insane. If someone thinks that the reason a woman doesn’t want to be raped because it means her offspring may not survive to reproduce themselves, that person is displaying an astonishing lack of empathy and understanding of human sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/300 "2018-07-22T02:47:06Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > Reducing the suffering of a sex slave to evolutionary resentment is, frankly, insane. If someone thinks that the reason a woman doesn’t want to be raped because it means her offspring may not survive to reproduce themselves, that person is displaying an astonishing lack of empathy and understanding of human sexuality. It also smacks of making things more complicated than necessary. People don’t want to be sex slaves for the same reason they don’t want to be forced to eat shit. No explanation required. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783.md?page=16)