# Sex robots for Incels? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 12, 2018, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783 "2018-07-12T15:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/341 "2018-07-23T12:47:23Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > What I’ve seen overwhelmingly in this thread are attitudes like yours. “Get the fuck over it.” Pure derision and contempt, absolutely no attempt to empathize with Incels or acknowledge their suffering as valid. The thing is, mockery is not going to make them go away or change their attitude. They already feel like the world is lined up against them. This will only make them double down on their beliefs and retreat further into their echochambers. I’ll gladly empathize with them. They need therapy. There’s no good solution to their problems that doesn’t involve them changing substantially. That’s kinda the long and short of it. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/342 "2018-07-23T13:41:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Loneliness doesn’t lead to incel-ism. Sexual frustration doesn’t lead to incel-ism. Almost every human experiences those feelings at some point in their lives. What leads to incel-ism is hatred – misogynistic and otherwise – and the dehumanization of women. For the most part, these men are just venting their frustration. Let’s face it, sex may not be a “need” like food, but it’s still an extremely strong desire. The lack of sex, especially for years at a time, is genuinely frustrating. Men are expected to keep their feelings bottled up. If you are an unattractive male, nobody gives a shit about you. The only outlet they have are anonymous message boards. I bet you 99.9% of them wouldn’t hurt a fly in real life, and are too timid to actually say misogynistic things to a woman’s face. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/343 "2018-07-23T13:45:38Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > What I’ve seen overwhelmingly in this thread are attitudes like yours. “Get the fuck over it.” Pure derision and contempt, absolutely no attempt to empathize with Incels or acknowledge their suffering as valid. The thing is, mockery is not going to make them go away or change their attitude. They already feel like the world is lined up against them. This will only make them double down on their beliefs and retreat further into their echochambers. I’ve visited the Incel boards. What I read there doesn’t make me empathize with them, or care about their suffering. They are full of poison, and it’s directed at me and my gender. They talk about rape like it’s a viable solution for them, and murder as a life goal. They verbally attack beautiful women for not wanting them, and not beautiful women for being fat, ugly, or both, but still managing to get laid. They attack men that do have success with women (the only metric that matters) and other incels for not being true or pure enough (that is, not embracing that hatred and poison passionately enough) They relentlessly rank people on looks and use that shallow metric to define not only their own lives (and explain their lack of success) but everyone else as well. They come up with ‘cute’ expressions like ‘roastie’ - a woman who has had sex so now her genitalia looks like roast beef. So no, I don’t have a lot of empathy for a self described Incel. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/344 "2018-07-23T13:51:08Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > What I’ve seen overwhelmingly in this thread are attitudes like yours. “Get the fuck over it.” Pure derision and contempt, absolutely no attempt to empathize with Incels or acknowledge their suffering as valid. The thing is, mockery is not going to make them go away or change their attitude. They already feel like the world is lined up against them. This will only make them double down on their beliefs and retreat further into their echochambers. Their suffering isn’t valid, b/c they’re doing it to themselves. You want us to say incels are right to feel and act as they do, when they aren’t. Just b/c a guy (and WHY is it always a guy?) chooses to latch onto an immature idea and then stew about it for 40 years doesn’t mean we have to figure out why he did or what’s right about his immature idea. It’s wrong. That’s why he’s miserable. He should look around at other men who are genuinely happy (not only men who have attractive partners) think about what they’ve done differently (seen women as people to get to know in order to partner w/ them rather than objects to claim) and then get the fuck over it. I empathize like a mofo, one look at my posting history will tell you that - but even a bleeding heart like me has a limit for trying to undo contrived problems of a person’s own making. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/345 "2018-07-23T13:53:33Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I’ve visited the Incel boards. What I read there doesn’t make me empathize with them, or care about their suffering. They are full of poison, and it’s directed at me and my gender. Underneath the misogyny and the poison, I see a fellow human being who is suffering and deserves compassion. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/346 "2018-07-23T13:55:15Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > For the most part, these men are just venting their frustration. Let’s face it, sex may not be a “need” like food, but it’s still an extremely strong desire. The lack of sex, especially for years at a time, is genuinely frustrating. Men are expected to keep their feelings bottled up. If you are an unattractive male, nobody gives a shit about you. The only outlet they have are anonymous message boards. I bet you 99.9% of them wouldn’t hurt a fly in real life, and are too timid to actually say misogynistic things to a woman’s face. Well, that makes me feel so much better! I’m glad few of them work up enough rage to do anything in real life. That timidity is likely a bigger part of the lack of success than lacking a few millimeters of bone in the facial structure. But they sure like to talk about it. That talk- that hatred, misogyny, violent rhetoric- is precisely why I don’t have sympathy for them. The fact that they are quiet and timid in real life, only saying what they really think if no one knows who they are, does make me fear them just a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/347 "2018-07-23T14:02:29Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > But they sure like to talk about it. That talk- that hatred, misogyny, violent rhetoric- is precisely why I don’t have sympathy for them. Sympathizing with them as people doesn’t entail agreeing with their ideology. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/348 "2018-07-23T14:06:10Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Underneath the misogyny and the poison, I see a fellow human being who is suffering and deserves compassion. Maybe it’s easier for you because you’re not one of the victims they’re fantasizing about killing and raping. While I empathize with most people, I have a hard time feeling bad for someone who has brought a large part of his suffering upon himself. The guy who groped the waitress and got slammed into the table, and then arrested in front of his family is an example. I feel bad for the wife and kids, but he brought that on himself. Or the “hero of the incels” - I am sure Elliot Rodger suffered, but I don’t think “that poor guy!” I feel bad for his victims, as their families, and his family. Some incels turn their rage inward, and I do have sympathy for them. But the community they’ve found and chosen is a repugnant and dangerous one. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/349 "2018-07-23T14:12:50Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > For the most part, these men are just venting their frustration. Let’s face it, sex may not be a “need” like food, but it’s still an extremely strong desire. The lack of sex, especially for years at a time, is genuinely frustrating. Men are expected to keep their feelings bottled up. If you are an unattractive male, nobody gives a shit about you. The only outlet they have are anonymous message boards. I bet you 99.9% of them wouldn’t hurt a fly in real life, and are too timid to actually say misogynistic things to a woman’s face. This isn’t an excuse for spreading misogyny and hatred. The vast majority of lonely and frustrated people don’t do this. There’s nothing special about incels except for the hatred and misogyny. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/350 "2018-07-23T14:25:15Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > While I empathize with most people, I have a hard time feeling bad for someone who has brought a large part of his suffering upon himself. The guy who groped the waitress and got slammed into the table, and then arrested in front of his family is an example. And from the video, it’s clear that she didn’t know what he looked like. So she was reacting to the fact that a dude (who may have been a CHAAAAD!) came up and groped her. Hmm. Maybe it’s behavior, not looks, that determine whether something is sexual assault! ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/351 "2018-07-23T14:36:37Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > And from the video, it’s clear that she didn’t know what he looked like. So she was reacting to the fact that a dude (who may have been a CHAAAAD!) came up and groped her. Hmm. Maybe it’s behavior, not looks, that determine whether something is sexual assault! That’s not how that community sees it. Comments are pretty much as expected there: she’s a slut, if he’d been a chad she would have just gigggled, violence is ok as long as you have a cunt, how dare she tease him and assault him, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/352 "2018-07-23T15:14:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This isn’t an excuse for spreading misogyny and hatred. The vast majority of lonely and frustrated people don’t do this. There’s nothing special about incels except for the hatred and misogyny. Right. I’ve asked the OP before to offer his thoughts on why we should treat incels as a group the same as a collection of people suffering from mental and emotional health problems. As it stands now, I see no reason to treat incels as anything but a hate group like the KKK, one that’s causing a lot of harm in society at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/353 "2018-07-23T15:32:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Right. I’ve asked the OP before to offer his thoughts on why we should treat incels as a group the same as a collection of people suffering from mental and emotional health problems. > > As it stands now, I see no reason to treat incels as anything but a hate group like the KKK, one that’s causing a lot of harm in society at the moment. An Incel isn’t just a lonely guy who can get laid, any more than a Klansman is just someone who is uncomfortable around blacks. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/354 "2018-07-23T15:44:24Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The ridiculous assumption that incels make is that nothing matters in a partner other than physical appearance, probably because physical appearance is all that matters to them. However, very few people in society are actually so shallow. And it doesn’t make sense even in terms of their crude evolutionary theory. > > What the vast majority of women want (and the women on the board can correct me if I’m wrong) is firstly someone with a LIFE. Someone who doesn’t spend all his time sitting in his bedroom jerking off to porn and whining about how unfair the world is. > > Someone who has a reasonable job and reasonable prospects, who has real-life (not online) friends, and real-life interests. Someone who is warm, friendly, sociable, pleasant to be with, has a sense of humour, and who _treats them with respect and affection_. > > Even in the over-simplistic evolutionary psych model that incels seem to use, this is what makes a good mate, a good father, a good life partner. Whether he has a jutting jawline or whatever, is totally trivial compared to this. No objection here, just want to note that we tend to keep compatibility and connection in mind with everything already stated. We want to fit in that person’s life and ideally be an important part of it. Being warm and sociable may present a challenge for some and that may rebuff some potential partners, but it’s playing on hard mode, not impossible mode. The right connections like values, hobbies, interests, or shared circumstances can smooth out a lot of differences. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/355 "2018-07-23T16:02:27Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > So you believe that there’s no way the incel’s problems could have _anything_ to do with simple math, such as 5 available men for every reasonably attractive woman. When you frame the incel’s plight as their inability to find a _reasonably attractive_ woman (rather than simply a compatible mate), it’s really hard to take you seriously. If someone is too shallow or close-minded to consider dating a woman who is as average or below average in looks as they are, why are we supposed to be sympathetic? I mean, I want to own a house in Hawaii and live the lifestyle of an independently wealthy heiress. But that is not attainable given the hand that’s been dealt to me, so I have to “settle” for what I can achieve. Isn’t that just what reasonable people do? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/356 "2018-07-23T16:24:26Z")
The real issue there is not the 5-men thing. It’s not the ‘reasonably attractive’ thing. It’s the fact that no one is evaluating the men on the ‘reasonably attractive’ scale. Does it only apply in one direction? Good question. In fact, by using the ‘reasonably attractive’ presentation, incels are establishing the very thing - appearance-based sexual attractiveness - to their goals that they reject in women’s goals. If women shouldn’t evaluate men on attractiveness, why shouldn’t women? This is the same sort of double-standard we tend to see in this sort of thing. Good luck to them. But I do want to promote one question. That is, what’s the exact scale of the issue here. Are there hordes of incels wandering around having crazy-ass internal dialogs with themselves just waiting to be triggered to violence or is it some half-assed reddit subgroup that should be viewed with pity? The fact is, this is the sort of thing media - of which I used to a member - tends to look to promote for the sensationalism of it all. We all know how small Internet-based communities can create bonding and reinforce odd habits and beliefs (God knows we know that here). If it’s some smallish group of people with complaints and a victimization complex reinforcing themselves then it’s silly to give them much attention for their complaints at all. Identify them, monitor them and let them be waterheads on their own time. At a minimum, it keeps the distracted. Yes, a few will get violent and we’ll get horrific events as happened in Toronto. But I’d be willing to bet that people willing to get violent aren’t made so by their online community. The use it as a justification, as an effect, not a cause. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/357 "2018-07-23T16:56:04Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > But I’d be willing to bet that people willing to get violent aren’t made so by their online community. The use it as a justification, as an effect, not a cause. We know that communities have a huge impact on radicalization. I don’t see why we would assume an internet community is different nor that Incel radicalization is different. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/358 "2018-07-23T17:35:48Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > What I’ve seen overwhelmingly in this thread are attitudes like yours. “Get the fuck over it.” Pure derision and contempt, absolutely no attempt to empathize with Incels or acknowledge their suffering as valid. The thing is, mockery is not going to make them go away or change their attitude. They already feel like the world is lined up against them. This will only make them double down on their beliefs and retreat further into their echochambers. After reading the comments made here by incels about women, quite frankly, I have no sympathy for them. And if anything, this is seriously mild to what I’ve seen elsewhere. The incel movement is downright hateful towards women and no, I don’t care about their “suffering”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/359 "2018-07-23T17:41:46Z")
If mocking an undesirable thing were all that were required to make it go away, there’d be no Islamic terrorism in the world and no school shootings. I think much of this thread is confusing what ought to be with what is. As the election of Trump showed, suppressing an opinion doesn’t make the opinion go away, it merely makes it manifest in other ways. Telling Person X that he or she ought not to feel a certain way, doesn’t make them stop feeling that way - if anything, it intensifies it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783/360 "2018-07-23T18:01:26Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Underneath the misogyny and the poison, I see a fellow human being who is suffering and deserves compassion. I have a great deal of compassion for people who are hurting. That does not extend to behaviors that attempt to hurt others. My concern with the Incel movement isn’t in being nice to Incels. I think we should look to strategies to short circuit radicalization before it happens or, if it has already happened, look to ways to bring people back into the community. That should never include a moment of justification for their vicious attacks on women, either physically or only virtually. My cat is allowed to bite me if he’s hurting. An adult isn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-robots-for-incels/817783.md?page=19)