# Sex without love, love without sex **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 5, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338 "2008-02-05T02:55:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/21 "2008-02-05T18:42:04Z")
Somebody once said, and I’m not going to google it to find out which _somebody_ it is… Sex without love is a meaningless experience… but, as meaningless experiences go, it’s a pretty good one. I’ve had sex without love. I’ve had sex with love. I like the second more, but the first definitely had its charms. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/22 "2008-02-05T19:30:44Z")
Aren’t they both forms of marriage? ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/23 "2008-02-05T21:12:59Z")
Every sex-without-love relationship I’ve had has had an expiration date. I can’t keep it going for more than a few months. I can’t do sex without a degree of _like_ and respect at all, so I don’t really do flings. I’d be happy to have an ongoing SWL relationship but I don’t think it would ever work. There’s a point in a relationship where the initial lusty excitement turns into a deeper and stronger and still lusty (but not as frantic) enjoyment; if that doesn’t happen, the excitement fades and the relationship ends. I can’t get past that no matter how great the sex is. Much to my detriment, I am sure. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/24 "2008-02-05T21:43:48Z")
From the male perspective, I’ve been in relationships where the sex was not so good and have been able to improve it (and yes, guys find some women really bad in bed, even though bad sex is pretty good.) I may be totally wrong on this, but from _my_ life experience, bad sex can usually be improved when both sides honestly talk about making it better. In my experience some partners I’ve had, both me and her were very “compatible” in bed pretty much from the beginning. In my experience, that just isn’t always the case, but I’ve always been able to make sex _better_ over time. I get the impression a lot of people seem to think that sexual performance between two people is a fixed state. I’ve heard this from both male and female friends. I’m a bit older now so not many of my friends are on the dating scene anymore. But I used to hear guy friends and girl friends say, “well, I really liked X, but we screwed for the first time on Saturday and it wasn’t so great.” They say it with a sense of finality like, “well, this person and me aren’t going to ever get better at this.” I genuinely think these are the people who don’t want to talk about it with their partner and try to make the situation better. It may be _possible_ that two people simply can’t improve at this whatsoever. But, I don’t view sex as a magical act. It’s a physical act and like most physical acts I can think of (read: all) lacking some disability (and even with some disabilities) you can improve on it. A good analogy is baseball. Pitcher A may be a great pitcher, catcher B may be a great catcher, but pitcher A just got traded to catcher B’s team, and they aren’t working well together. What does this mean? Does it mean they are “incompatible?” Well, I think _some_ pitcher/catcher duos might feel that way. But I think the truth of the matter is, it just means they need to work things out and get better as a team. With most physical activities we do, it’s “on us” to make it better, because we’re the only ones who can improve it. With sex, it’s a two-person activity so both people need to be actively involved in making it better, as a team. Sort of like a pitcher and catcher do in baseball. My advice to anyone is, if you aren’t enjoying the sex, but you really like the person–it’s easy to make the sex better, but it’s hard/impossible to “love” or care for someone who you just don’t like as a person. My experience is that I’ve _always_ been able to make the sex better by open and honest communication and working on making it better. It’s also been my experience some people aren’t comfortable having that sort of dialog, if that’s the case I think you have to ask if the person you’re having sex with is someone who you truly care about, if they were, this would not be a hard discussion to have. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/25 "2008-02-05T22:20:43Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] I’ve never had sex without love, it’s like pancakes without the syrup, a fluffy stack of blah. Fool’s Gold. [/QUOTE] Sex and syrup go together really well though. The love and pancakes are optional. ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/26 "2008-02-05T23:29:01Z")
If the pancakes are banana chocolate chip, you don’t _need_ syrup. That said, I had a steamy affair with a guy for a few months before I realized I couldn’t stand being vertical and clothed with him. It was fun while it lasted but ultimately not worth the time. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/27 "2008-02-05T23:35:16Z")
As is the case with most popular sex concerns, there’s a [Sex and the City](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnNzxoS-6_c) ep about this. Carrie tries dating a fuck buddy and realizes he’s a total douche (he’s played by Dean Winters doing basically the same jerk schtick he does for **30 Rock**. Well, it may not be schtick, from what I’ve heard, but I digress). ---
**Author:** ![BrknButterfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BrknButterfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrknButterfly)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/28 "2008-02-06T01:42:25Z")
I’ve had both types of relationships. Though I have found that Friends with Bennys has more excitement then relationships. Relationships cool off and there isn’t that excitement anymore. The butterflies fade away and the sex almost becomes routine. Same amount of kissing. positions. In the same order. I get bored when I know what to expect. Though I guess it is true with any relationship… the longer you are with someone… doesn’t it cool off anyways? ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/29 "2008-02-06T01:56:57Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Right. And the same criticism of the statement applies. If he’s (she’s?) never had sex without love, how can he authoritatively say it’s “Fool’s Gold”? [/QUOTE] Ahhhhh. I see now. I guess the OP should have said “I imagine it to be like pancakes without syrup.” Or perhaps he was once offered it, and _almost_ ate it. (so to speak) Also, I have to amend my ‘(me too)’ There was one F.B. I could honestly say I didn’t love. The sex was frequent, always available, and disappointing. I felt like I was using her to masturbate. A slut of the first order, she was, she didn’t mind. Perhaps I should say I’ve never made love without falling in love for real. With her, it was just fucking. I’ve never cared for ‘just fucking’. I still come across her, sometimes. At orgies and whatnot. Oh, and **Belrix**? It was Woody Allen, in one of his books. Maybe ‘Without Feathers’. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/30 "2008-02-06T02:17:12Z")
I went from a long sex-without-love relationship to a very loving relationship with so-so sex. No comparison (as far as sex is concerned) actually. That being said, I wouldn’t switch up for anything in the world. I guess values shift a bit when you get older. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/31 "2008-02-06T04:09:49Z")
[QUOTE=Antinor01] Sex and syrup go together really well though. [/QUOTE] Whipped cream is also good. The kind in the can, not the tub. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/32 "2008-02-06T04:59:02Z")
[QUOTE=The Sonoran Lizard King] **I still come across her** , sometimes. At orgies and whatnot. [/QUOTE] _snort_ _juvenile giggle_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/33 "2008-02-06T20:42:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrknButterfly] Though I guess it is true with any relationship… the longer you are with someone.. doesn’t it cool off anyways? [/QUOTE] Maybe not “cool off” as much as “mellow out?” ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/34 "2008-02-06T21:04:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrknButterfly] I’ve had both types of relationships. Though I have found that Friends with Bennys has more excitement then relationships. Relationships cool off and there isn’t that excitement anymore. The butterflies fade away and the sex almost becomes routine. Same amount of kissing. positions. In the same order. I get bored when I know what to expect. Though I guess it is true with any relationship… the longer you are with someone.. doesn’t it cool off anyways? [/QUOTE] Speak for yourself, bub. NajaHub and I have gotten hotter, steamier, and kinkier as the years go by. We’re getting to know each other better and better in all ways, and that sure as hell extends to our sex lives. It sounds like your problem isn’t exactly that the sex is routine, just that you and your partners haven’t been (either/or or both) willing and able to keep exploring the wide world of sexuality. Sometimes I’ve been surprised by the things I’ve discovered I enjoy, and sometimes we’ve chucked the new activity in favor of our old friend, missionary. One fun fact I learned is that missionary position sex can be uber, screamin’, rock-our-worlds **hot** when you “rediscover” it a year later 😉 I can and did have plenty of sex without love before him, some of it was great fun and some thoroughly forgettable. The best part about the sex-with-love, at least in our case which is all I can speak for, is that it gets _better_ with time. The friends-with-benefits were fun but necessarily rather impersonal and generally fairly sort-term (\<6 months in all except two cases). Anyway in response to your assessment, for me novelty is fun while it lasts but short-lived. Sex-with-love has turned into serious quality. Everyone’sMM(and does)V on this one. ---
**Author:** ![BrknButterfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@BrknButterfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrknButterfly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/35 "2008-02-07T01:11:20Z")
[QUOTE=NajaNivea] \Speak for yourself, bub. NajaHub and I have gotten hotter, steamier, and kinkier as the years go by. We’re getting to know each other better and better in all ways, and that sure as hell extends to our sex lives. It sounds like your problem isn’t exactly that the sex is routine, just that you and your partners haven’t been (either/or or both) willing and able to keep exploring the wide world of sexuality. \ [/QUOTE] It wasn’t that I wasn’t in to trying news thing. Oh trust me I was. I was all for spicing things up, he on the other hand not so much. He didn’t like the fact that I liked toys. Made him feel inadequate. Same positions. Same foreplay. Same amount of time. And it has been the same problem with other steadies as well, so one would think the common denominator is me. Who knows. :dubious: Though I doubt it. I’m all for trying out new moves. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![NajaNivea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/22d042/32.png) [@NajaNivea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NajaNivea)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/36 "2008-02-07T01:27:33Z")
[QUOTE=BrknButterfly] And it has been the same problem with other steadies as well, so one would think the common denominator is me. Who knows. :dubious: Though I doubt it. I’m all for trying out new moves. 🆒 [/QUOTE] Well, at least the search for the ultimately compatible partner has its benefits, whether or not you ever find the partner in question 😃 ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/37 "2008-02-07T01:34:46Z")
[QUOTE=Belrix] Somebody once said, and I’m not going to google it to find out which _somebody_ it is… Sex without love is a meaningless experience… but, as meaningless experiences go, it’s a pretty good one. I’ve had sex without love. I’ve had sex with love. I like the second more, but the first definitely had its charms. [/QUOTE] Just so you all know how seriously to take this concept, it was Woody Allen who said it. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/38 "2008-02-07T16:42:19Z")
Some googling reveals: [Quote=Woody Allen (Love and Death)] Sex without love is an empty gesture. But as empty gestures go, it is one of the best. [/quote] ..in the interests of proper attribution and accurate quoting. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/39 "2008-02-07T19:07:49Z")
I wouldn’t know how to have sex without love, to be honest. For whatever reason, I just don’t attract girls who are looking for that: the girls I’ve always attracted have wanted the complete package. I still haven’t completely settled the argument inside my mind as to whether this has made my life richer or not. Sometimes I really wish I’d been the kind of guy who could “hit it and quit it” and who had a resume of sex partners that was at least as long as his resume of fingers on one hand, but most of the time I think I’ve been better off for the way I’ve handled things. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338/40 "2008-02-07T19:29:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Sex without love is an empty gesture. But as empty gestures go, it is one of the best. Actually, I heard it was Woody Allen who said this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sex-without-love-love-without-sex/436338.md?page=3)