# sexism in college **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2008, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688 "2008-10-13T07:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/41 "2008-10-15T16:13:29Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I dunno, the moustache might be a giveaway. Women can’t have mustaches, nor can they put on a fake one?? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/42 "2008-10-16T00:32:43Z")
> [@copperwindow](#): > > How would they know I was a man? I’m certainly not going to start parading my penis around. I could just say that I’m a really good Cross dresser or a transvestite. If you’re not going to read the thread I don’t know why you’re bothering here. I have already explained why you wouldn’t be able to get away with this little ruse, and I really do not see the point of constructing far-fetched hypotheticals where a man is admitted to a college as a woman. Your original question has been answered, and I no longer believe you have any legitimate interest in the subject. Maybe you enjoy fantasizing about being the only man in a women’s dorm, but it’s not going to happen in real life. > [@](#): > > \*Explain to me your legitimate way to graduate with a degree from Barnard! \*Oh, so it’s Barnard in particular you’re interested in now. Well, if you’re so desperate to go to Barnard you should contact them yourself. Their affiliation with Columbia means that any Columbia student can take classes at Barnard, but I don’t have any connection to Barnard and don’t have any idea what special degree programs they might or might not offer. But every women’s college with a graduate program grants degrees to male students, all or nearly all allow male non-degree students to take classes, and several ([Mary Baldwin College](http://www.mbc.edu/adp/prospect/will_i_fit.asp), for example) have special undergraduate degree programs that are co-ed. There are also a number of former women’s colleges that are now co-ed, most notably Vassar. ---
**Author:** ![copperwindow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@copperwindow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copperwindow)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/43 "2008-10-16T05:36:38Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Keep in mind that all single-sex colleges remaining in the US are _private_ institutions. Does this mean that I can open my own private college, white males only? Is this legal? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2008, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/44 "2008-10-16T07:22:43Z")
Sure you can. You’re not going to attract enough students to sustain the college, but you can open it if you want to. There are only five men’s undergraduate institutions in the U.S. (if you ignore some specialized religious institutions): > **[Men's colleges in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_colleges_in_the_United_States)** > > Men's colleges in the United States are primarily those categorized as being undergraduate, bachelor's degree-granting single-sex institutions that admit only men. In the United States, male-only undergraduate higher education was the norm until the 1960s. The few remaining well-known men's colleges are traditional independent liberal arts colleges, though at present the majority are institutions of learning for those preparing for religious vocations. > Historically, many colleges in the United S... They all have a special history which explains their existence. Men’s colleges have been disappearing because very few men want to go to them. Women’s colleges have been disappearing (but slower than men’s colleges) because not very many women want to go to them. The historically black colleges have been disappearing (or turning into more diverse places) because not that many black students want to go to a college that’s not racially diverse. These are all historical anomalies, and eventually (not in the next few years or even the next few decades but eventually) they willl all disappear. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/45 "2008-10-25T16:51:33Z")
Just now, rereading this thread, I realize I made a mistake in the last post. Yes, you can open up your own college accepting only males, although it’s highly unlikely that you’d get enough students to make a go of it. No, you can’t limit it to just white males. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/46 "2014-02-09T11:05:52Z")
I know its 6 years old, but the new thread got closed. (somewhat ironic given that usually old threads are closed ,saying “start a new thread”. ) "Smith expects that, to be eligible for review, a student’s application and supporting documentation (transcripts, recommendations, etc.) will reflect her status as a woman. " Come on, how is that meant to work ? If the referees all say “She is a tomboy who plays football and did metal work, maths, science, computer science, and plays violent computer games” are they looking at the first word “she”, or the rest ? … It seems to be saying "You’d better be a girly girl, or be an activiist… " Maybe if you are an activist they let you in, on the basis they know there will be hell to pay if they don’t. 🙂 I can’t quite work out what they mean, what if its an gay bloke who wants to go there to learn cooking. Or are they not insisting on, but hoping for, some sort of statement about genitalia . (proof of transgenderness. ) ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/47 "2014-02-09T11:30:39Z")
[ Never mind ---
**Author:** ![geezer1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d6d6ee/32.png) [@geezer1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/geezer1)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/48 "2014-02-09T13:39:53Z")
The Seven Sisters are pretty well known – Where are the Seven Brothers ? ? I think separated gender education should begin in 5th grade and continue through High School – these years are the ones of “raging hormones” and a mixture of M/F in the same classroom is guaranteed to result in a lack of retained content due to the natural action/reaction of the sexes in the presence of each other . . . ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/49 "2014-02-09T13:52:13Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > If the referees all say “She is a tomboy who plays football and did metal work, maths, science, computer science, and plays violent computer games” are they looking at the first word “she”, or the rest ? … Women are not barred from any of those things. Such a woman would be unusual, but by no means are they impossible to find. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/50 "2014-02-09T13:56:31Z")
> [@geezer1](#): > > The Seven Sisters are pretty well known – Where are the Seven Brothers ? ? Because at the time all the other colleges were, essentially, males only. The seven sisters were formed to give women a reasonable opportunity to go to college in an environment where they had a good chance to succeed socially and academically. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/51 "2014-02-09T14:12:24Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > I know its 6 years old, but the new thread got closed. (somewhat ironic given that usually old threads are closed ,saying “start a new thread”. ) > > "Smith expects that, to be eligible for review, a student’s application and supporting documentation (transcripts, recommendations, etc.) will reflect her status as a woman. " > Come on, how is that meant to work ? The part you copied comes from Smith’s section on Gender identity and expression. I’m not sure how you get your conclusion that Smith only wants “girly girls” based on the language they have on that page. Here is one section from that page: > [@](#): > > **How does Smith decide who is a woman?** > \*\*It doesn’t. \*\*With regard to admission, Smith relies upon the information provided by each student applicant. In other contexts, different definitions and requirements may apply. For example, the definition of a woman for NCAA competition may differ from the definition of a woman for purposes of admission to Smith or other single-sex colleges. Here is the text from the section you quoted: > [@](#): > > **How does Smith consider applications from transgender students?** > An application from a transgender student is treated no differently from other applications: every application Smith receives is considered on a case-by-case basis. Like most women’s colleges, Smith expects that, to be eligible for review, a student’s application and supporting documentation (transcripts, recommendations, etc.) will reflect her status as a woman. The point is that they accept transgendered women, but, to address the OP’s concerns from up thread (what if a man just decides he’s woman so he can pretend and get into Smith), they expect some consistency in the female identity from it’s applicants. Plus, later on that page [http://www.smith.edu/diversity/gender.php](http://www.smith.edu/diversity/gender.php) they say that if a woman transitions to male during college, they still graduate as a Smith graduate. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/52 "2014-02-09T14:18:26Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > There are also a few all-male private colleges: Morehouse College (Georgia), St. John’s University (Minnesota), Hampden-Sydney College (Virginia), Wabash College (Indiana), and Deep Springs College (a two-year college in California). > > I’ll leave it to the legal eagles to explain why sex discrimination by private colleges is legal. I believe racial discrimination would be equally legal, but it is harder to get backers for. Short answer (I’m not a lawyer), if you are paying for it, you can discriminate all you want, against whomever you want. But there a rules about what you do if you want to get government money, and one of them is you can’t discriminate based on race, and another is that you can’t discriminate based on gender. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/53 "2014-02-09T15:43:39Z")
There are still some all-women’s colleges and all-men’s colleges. None of those are public colleges, and it’s illegal to have such a public college in the U.S. Nearly all of the all-men’s colleges are actually seminaries that insist on gender separation in education. There are a somewhat larger number of all-women’s colleges, nearly all of which were established before about 1965. There are some historically black colleges. They were nearly all established between 1865 and 1964. I don’t think any of them are all black anymore. They tend to have between 10% and 75% non-black students. It would definitely be illegal to limit a public college to just one race, and I think it’s also illegal at a private college. The all-women’s and historically black colleges are historical anomalies that are slowly disappearing. Before the early nineteenth century it was rare for either women or blacks to attend college. A small number of all-women or all-black colleges were established up until the mid-twentieth century, when that pretty much quit happening. This was because nearly all colleges slowly became racially and sexually mixed during the period from the mid-nineteenth century to the mid-twentieth century. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/54 "2014-02-09T22:11:12Z")
> [@geezer1](#): > > The Seven Sisters are pretty well known – Where are the Seven Brothers ? ? > > I think separated gender education should begin in 5th grade and continue through > High School – these years are the ones of “raging hormones” and a mixture of M/F > in the same classroom is guaranteed to result in a lack of retained content due to the > natural action/reaction of the sexes in the presence of each other . . . The Seven Sisters was basically the Ivy League for women (though Cornell has been coed since it was founded & Radcliffe was Harvard’s women’s college). And single-sex education isn’t going to be ideal for every teenager. Some of us spent our teen years full of raging hormones and distracted by the _same_ sex. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/55 "2014-02-10T17:59:19Z")
I’m surprised the whole thread went by and nobody mentioned the legal reason single-sex colleges are allowed. The First Amendment grants freedom of association to private organizations. Now, that doesn’t mean your white males with green hair, blue eyes, and facial tattoos only college will get applicants, a staff, accreditation, or anything else, but if you’re paying for it and it’s private, more power to you. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/56 "2014-02-10T18:29:59Z")
> [@SpyOne](#): > > I believe racial discrimination would be equally legal, but it is harder to get backers for. Nope, that would be illegal, because race is a constitutionally protected class. You can’t discriminate based on whether someone is a member of a constitutionally protected class, but you can discriminate on just about anything else. I’m a supporter of the Equal Rights Amendment, which unfortunately failed to pass, but I suspect that any reasonable rendering of such an amendment would have made single-sex institutions illegal, and I’m sure it would have caused an awful lot of nuisance lawsuits. Still, I believe that it should be constitutional that women and men have equal rights in this country, and I think it’s shameful that it failed to pass. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/57 "2014-02-10T19:40:41Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Nope, that would be illegal, because race is a constitutionally protected class. You can’t discriminate based on whether someone is a member of a constitutionally protected class, but you can discriminate on just about anything else. > > I’m a supporter of the Equal Rights Amendment, which unfortunately failed to pass, but I suspect that any reasonable rendering of such an amendment would have made single-sex institutions illegal, and I’m sure it would have caused an awful lot of nuisance lawsuits. Still, I believe that it should be constitutional that women and men have equal rights in this country, and I think it’s shameful that it failed to pass. Whatever happened to the state action requirement? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688/58 "2014-02-10T19:56:31Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > I know its 6 years old, but the new thread got closed. (somewhat ironic given that usually old threads are closed ,saying “start a new thread”. ) > > "Smith expects that, to be eligible for review, a student’s application and supporting documentation (transcripts, recommendations, etc.) will reflect her status as a woman. " > Come on, how is that meant to work ? > > If the referees all say “She is a tomboy who plays football and did metal work, maths, science, computer science, and plays violent computer games” are they looking at the first word “she”, or the rest ? … > > It seems to be saying "You’d better be a girly girl, or be an activiist… " > > Maybe if you are an activist they let you in, on the basis they know there will be hell to pay if they don’t. 🙂 > > I can’t quite work out what they mean, what if its an gay bloke who wants to go there to learn cooking. > > Or are they not insisting on, but hoping for, some sort of statement about genitalia . > (proof of transgenderness. ) I’m assuming they don’t mean proof she’s no longer a virgin? I don’t see anything confusing about this. Documentation in obvious and also in sideways manners refers to a person’s gender. Presumably they mean that they expect that the documentaiton will not be (or will not have been edited to be) contradictory or ambiguous as to the applicant’s (physical) gender being female. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexism-in-college/467688.md?page=2)