# Sexual assault scenario **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220 "2017-10-18T12:20:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/41 "2017-10-18T20:00:36Z")
Are we pretending that the justice system doesn’t work this way in other circumstances? Anyone remember when they were laying assault charges against hockey players for their actions on the ice? No one went to jail, fines got paid, things changed. You know how they got people to stop thinking that drinking and driving was no big thing? They laid charges! It is offensive every time this is portrayed as ‘just a pinch’. Every woman knows a pinch us not always ‘just a pinch’. That everything, grabbing, cupping, pinching, slapping get dismisses as just a pinch! But, in fact, it includes a man making an aggressive grab for a woman’s pussy, from behind, and often succeeding. Are you seriously asking us to consider this physical sexual assault, ‘just a pinch’? Ask the women you know who’ve had their ass groped what their reaction was. (Those would be most all the women you know!) Because if you want to talk about proportion of response, this young woman turned around and punched this man right in the face. If you want to believe that’s the response to, ‘just a little pinch’, you can. I do not. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/42 "2017-10-18T20:07:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Manda JO, I think you must be using the word “pinching” to mean something different from what I think it means. I just pinched my own butt, and it didn’t hurt at all. The pain level wasn’t low; it was zero. Now, it’s possible to pinch someone so hard that it does cause pain or even injury, but we have no information at all to indicate that that’s the case here. And I would say I have never been pinched by another person where it did _not_ hurt. Heck, it’s something little kids when fighting. If it’s not hard enough to hurt, it’s “squeezing” - not pinching. I would definitely advocate taking to school authorities _if they won’t spread it around._ Unfortunately, reality is, victims often get blamed. Even rape victims will sometimes say the social stigmatization was worse than the rape. If people find out, most will hate her. But there _needs_ to be a record if it happens again, and there needs, IMO, to be school-based discipline - not just a talking to, actual discipline. Or else it’s just another case of “boys will be boys and can do whatever they want to girls.” But, the school can’t just take one person’s word over the others without corroboration from any third parties. Still would like an “on the record” complaint if possible. Charges are not realistic at this point. And anyone saying the girl’s response was out of line is just flat out wrong, as far as I’m concerned. Someone was physically aggressive to her and she responded in turn to protect herself/dissuade further aggression (also can’t be sure she knew who it was or any of that v. just immediately reacting to the physical sensation without taking in surroundings) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/43 "2017-10-18T20:08:51Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > What should happen here is that the options should be explained to the daughter. And then whatever the daughter chooses to do: she should be supported 100%. I could get behind this if the girl was an adult. But she’s a minor, so an adult (ideally her parent(s)) should be guiding her toward whatever they feel is a reasonable response. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/44 "2017-10-18T20:09:04Z")
The level of draconian hysterical reactions from certain posters in this thread (and similar other threads) is terrifying. Damn right, **Shodan** , hang the little proto-rapist bastard! There can be no solution until (and yes, I’ve heard this suggested) we divide the world into two groups of continents, and put all the world’s human males on one of them and all the world’s human females on the other. I mean, didn’t we just recently have a thread about how violated females feel if a strange male so much as talks to them in a public place, or sits next to them on a public bus? Castrate the fuckers, all of them! (And ix-nay on the anesthetic.) As to the present case, I sure hope that little survivor girl is able to get all the short-term and long-term therapy she’s going to need, to recover from this life-rending trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/45 "2017-10-18T20:14:03Z")
Okay, **Senegoid** - do you advocate _any_ disciplinary action at all for the boy? Even if this isn’t a first offense? What do you think should be done? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/46 "2017-10-18T20:20:15Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > And anyone saying the girl’s response was out of line is just flat out wrong, as far as I’m concerned. Someone was physically aggressive to her and she responded in turn to protect herself/dissuade further aggression (also can’t be sure she knew who it was or any of that v. just immediately reacting to the physical sensation without taking in surroundings) I’m not going to go back and read every post again, but I don’t recall anyone saying that the girl was not justified in responding with a punch or slap or whatever “clocking” the boy means. Did I miss that? ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/47 "2017-10-18T20:28:11Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I’m not going to go back and read every post again, but I don’t recall anyone saying that the girl was not justified in responding with a punch or slap or whatever “clocking” the boy means. Did I miss that? **Icarus** said > [@](#): > > To a only slightly lesser degree, the girl in question would receive a talking to about using physical violence. But again, a chance to learn and correct behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/48 "2017-10-18T20:28:34Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Okay, legally I believe it is sexual assault. I also don’t believe anyone would actually charge or convict under these circumstances. > > I will use an anecdote from my own life. A young man back in Edmonton, sent my daughter a series of really, really ugly text messages. I mean vile, hate-speech type messages. Did I want him charged? No. What did happen was the RCMP Liaison officer from the school had a meeting with the school, his parents and the young man and they had a come to Jesus moment. > > A similar approach to this would suffice. He is young, and still teachable, use this moment to teach him, but drive that lesson home. ^^amen ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/49 "2017-10-18T20:36:44Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > As to the present case, I sure hope that little survivor girl is able to get all the short-term and long-term therapy she’s going to need, to recover from this life-rending trauma. This attitude right here…belittling the victim and making fun of her…this is why women don’t speak up. You may or may not have sexually assaulted anyone, **Senegoid** , but you and people like you are still very much a part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/50 "2017-10-18T20:37:25Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > So a school kid pinching a girl’s ass is now equivalent to Harvey Weinstien sexually assaulting numerous women over many decades. …nope. > [@](#): > > A pinch in the hallway by a teenager is the same as a studio head using his considerable power and status to pressure and assault women? Nope. The situations are fucking obviously not equivalent. But the thing is I never claimed that they were equivalent. I asked the question: “How was it, do you think, people like Harvey Weinstein got away with what he did for so long?” And this is precisely why. “Not for a first offense” I’ve heard said repeatedly in this thread. We don’t know if it was a first offense. We don’t know how many times he’s done it and gotten away with it. We don’t know how many other girls were told “its the first time he’s done it, don’t worry about it.” This is how people like Weinstein learn to get away with it. They learn to make each and every time “the first time.” They learn how to make their victims feel guilty. To not to want to make a scene. We need to change how we approach this. This isn’t about the boy. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen girls playfully - and not so playfully - slap and punch boys with little or no provocation. I’ve never once heard anyone say the cops should be called and criminal charges filed. I never advocated the calling of the cops and for criminal charges to be filed. > [@](#): > > Unless there were serious injury, I would say it would be overreaction to call the cops and charge a girl with assault in these cases. Only serious injury? How about if he slid his hands down her pants? Touched her breasts? Your line is “serious injury?” Really? > [@](#): > > This isn’t about male or female, or “boys will be boys”, It most certainly is. Enough people have excused the boys behavior based on this alone in this thread. This is the core of the problem. This needs to stop. > [@](#): > > its about not escalating childish or teenage behavior into criminal charges. The point needs to be made clear to the boy that he isn’t allowed to do this… but without bringing the legal system into it, or making both of their lives hell by making it into a much larger issue than it is. We live in a society where the boy (or if the transgressor is a girl, then the girl) is constantly excused, is always given a pass, where we bend over backwards to say that this behavior is “acceptable.” But it isn’t acceptable. We should not be teaching people to worry about the feelings of the person who has harassed them, who has touched them in a way they don’t want to be touched. I have not said that this needs to escalate to the point that the police get involved. But this isn’t about the boy. That’s my point. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/51 "2017-10-18T20:37:30Z")
> [@](#): > > To a only slightly lesser degree, the girl in question would receive a talking to about using physical violence. But again, a chance to learn and correct behavior. Without any of us being there to see the “pinch” or “clocking”, I don’t see how we can really evaluate the pinch or the reaction. But I can certainly imagine a case where a girl might react with disproportionate force, where a playful, mild squeeze or pinch is met with a full-force punch in the face. I’m not saying a reaction isn’t deserved, but we really can’t determine whether she reacted reasonably or over-reacted. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/52 "2017-10-18T20:38:59Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Because grabbing a girl’s ass unprovoked is not as serious as breaking her nose unprovoked. > > For heaven’s sake, you sound like a Victorian arguing that [a child pickpocket should be hanged](http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/victorian-children-in-trouble/). Just to teach the others a lesson. > > Regards, > Shodan Replace “breaking her nose” with “sucker punching her”. Which can break someone’s nose but doesn’t always. Do you think punching him was proportional as a response? If it’s just a little pinch, if we have to evaluate it like any other physical assault and not give the sexual element much weight, then she should be suspended. If you think what she did was proportionate, then we should treat what he did as similar to the same sort of physical assault that would justify her reaction. > [@Chronos](#): > > **Manda JO** , I think you must be using the word “pinching” to mean something different from what I think it means. I just pinched my own butt, and it didn’t hurt at all. The pain level wasn’t low; it was zero. Now, it’s _possible_ to pinch someone so hard that it does cause pain or even injury, but we have no information at all to indicate that that’s the case here. Pinching yourself NEVER hurts because you stop when it starts to hurt. When you pinch others, you don’t know where that point is. I think the default is that a pinch hurts. Let’s say he did hurt her. Does that change your opinion? > [@Senegoid](#): > > As to the present case, I sure hope that little survivor girl is able to get all the short-term and long-term therapy she’s going to need, to recover from this life-rending trauma. You know what? Having someone sucker punch you in the face also doesn’t cause life-rending trauma, but if a kid punches another we treat it pretty seriously. We don’t give them a warning and watch to make sure it isn’t a pattern. We don’t say “maybe he doesn’t know the line between punching and fist-bumping”. > [@Orwell](#): > > I’m not going to go back and read every post again, but I don’t recall anyone saying that the girl was not justified in responding with a punch or slap or whatever “clocking” the boy means. Did I miss that? She my response above. If punching him is a reasonable response, why don’t we treat what he did as we’d treat anything else for which that was a reasonable response? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/53 "2017-10-18T20:40:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Only serious injury? How about if he slid his hands down her pants? Touched her breasts? Your line is “serious injury?” Really? I was referring to serious injury if a girl hits a boy. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/54 "2017-10-18T20:42:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We live in a society where the boy (or if the transgressor is a girl, then the girl) is constantly excused, is always given a pass, where we bend over backwards to say that this behavior is “acceptable.” I don’t know what society you live in, but you are not participating in a thread where anyone said the behavior was “acceptable”, or anything close to it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/55 "2017-10-18T20:47:32Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Without any of us being there to see the “pinch” or “clocking”, I don’t see how we can really evaluate the pinch or the reaction. But I can certainly imagine a case where a girl might react with disproportionate force, where a playful, mild squeeze or pinch is met with a full-force punch in the face. I’m not saying a reaction isn’t deserved, but we really can’t determine whether she reacted reasonably or over-reacted. What is the appropriate reaction to someone giving your privates a “mild squeeze”? ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/56 "2017-10-18T20:48:09Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > …where a playful, mild squeeze or pinch is met with a full-force punch in the face. Playful? this is exactly the problem. There is nothing playful about having your ass pinched. There is nothing playful about [sexual assault](https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault). Mild squeeze or pinch? I had a guy “mildly squeeze or pinch” my arm once at camp that left a bruise I still had a week later. Not the same situation, but you have no idea how forceful a pinch can be or how sensitive another person might be to pain. Which is exactly why people need to keep their hands to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/57 "2017-10-18T21:14:25Z")
My first thought was, the world is a crazy place and that the end of the story was going to be that he pressed charges against her for assault. Anyway, to the OP, no I don’t think charges should be filed, I think it’s up to the girl to decide whether he got the message or if she wants to take it up with the principal/administration. If she decides to do that, I hope the school has a good plan in place because if they don’t or they refuse to deal with it, they are doing her a disservice. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/58 "2017-10-18T21:24:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > What is the appropriate reaction to someone giving your privates a “mild squeeze”? Boom chicka wow wow. – just kidding – It depends on a lot of things. Without question, no single answer applies. So, your butt is equivalent to your genitals when it comes to something like this? Sincerely asking. Because I see people of both genders slapping others of both genders on the butt. Can’t seem to recall slapping of genitals. ---
**Author:** ![mmmiiikkkeee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/edb3f5/32.png) [@mmmiiikkkeee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mmmiiikkkeee)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/59 "2017-10-18T21:44:07Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Playful? this is exactly the problem. There is nothing playful about having your ass pinched. There is nothing playful about [sexual assault](https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault). No, there [really is](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkSxv9J9lKE&app=desktop) such a thing as playful pinching. I don’t like it personally, but none of the people in this video appeared traumatized or reacted with violence. Nor would such a gag be set up if that were the typical reaction. I don’t think anyone would think that assault charges are the only acceptable response for this perpetrator who’s old enough to know better and is obviously a repeat offender. There isn’t enough information in the OP to know whether that case was closer to the video or to a serious intention to assault for gratification. But I don’t think all cases should be treated as the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/60 "2017-10-18T21:47:06Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > Okay, **Senegoid** - do you advocate _any_ disciplinary action at all for the boy? Even if this isn’t a first offense? What do you think should be done? I’d fall into the camp with those who feel that a good talking-to should suffice. (If it’s a known repeated offense, that changes things, for the worse. The OP’s description seems to imply that this isn’t the case.) And I don’t particularly object to the little girl giving him a good “clocking” either. Seems like that ought to suffice to settle the matter. > [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > This attitude right here…belittling the victim and making fun of her…this is why women don’t speak up. You may or may not have sexually assaulted anyone, **Senegoid** , but you and people like you are still very much a part of the problem. Not really, necessarily. It’s really the shrieking hysterical Inquisitors in this thread that I’m mocking. If getting pinched on the butt doesn’t traumatize her for life, then do we really need to have the perp strung up by the balls and have to wear a bracelet on his ankle for life? It was a petty offense, given that they’re just kids, and any response beyond a serious talking-to (or a first-person direct clocking) is total overkill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220.md?page=4)