# Sexual assault scenario **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2017, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220 "2017-10-18T12:20:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/61 "2017-10-19T00:28:39Z")
I’m just stepping in to put in my support for a good talking to, assuming it’s the first offense, probably with the parents and principal, maybe detention. I’m fine with nothing happening to the girl, since she may have just acted out of surprise or instinct, and was defending herself in any case. If this has happened before with him, suspension, maybe expulsion if it’s really bad. We’ve already had a cop come into this thread and say there’s probably nothing the police would do anyway. For those suggesting we get the cops involved just to put some fear in him, those processes can get out of control fast. In the unlikely event they decide to pursue this, he could end up going down the path of a plea and sex offender status, something crazy like that. You don’t go to the police to teach a lesson. A public apology (post #20) doesn’t result in charges getting dropped. There are some pretty over-the-top responses here, but, jeez, **elbows** , holy smokes. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/62 "2017-10-19T01:02:52Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Charge him. > > He laid his hand, uninvited, on a women in a sexual fashion. Then it is equally fair that if a woman does it, then it is ok to knock her out, and then also bring her up on assault charges? Because the girls do the same things at that age. Or is this a one way street? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/63 "2017-10-19T04:06:45Z")
It’s rare enough to be newsworthy when it happens, but there was in fact a recent [case](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida-12-year-old-arrested-for-pinching-classmates-butt/) where one student was prosecuted for pinching another. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/64 "2017-10-19T13:01:43Z")
Butt pinching in many contexts is considered a form of sexual contact. As previously noted, our culturally accepted rules concerning sexual contact are nuanced; in some situations/conditions sexual contact is perfectly okay, while in others it’s not. It’s doubtful, for instance, the girl referenced in the news story above intended the butt pinch to be sexual at all. Concerning the scenario in the OP, I suspect the pinch was very much intended to express sexual interest - an ill-considered and inept pass if you will. Had the boy and girl had been dating for several months and the butt pinching occurred 30 minutes after a make out session, well that might be okay, but based on no more familiarity than a single group date? Almost certainly not. These kinds of culturally accepted norms are not spelled out in black and white. Much has to do with how well the two individuals know each other for an accurate assessment of consent to occur. This is a learned behavior and I think it’s in society’s best interests to afford juveniles a small margin of error during that learning curve in adolescence where corrections can occur. Naturally, where the nature of the transgressions is more serious and the potential harms greater that margin should necessarily be much narrower. Using the state’s power and resources to enforce a zero tolerance policy on the age cohort that’s just starting to experience the onset of hormones may even adversely impact the learning and acquisition of experience that needs to occur at that age. The reason several posters have made a distinction whether this is a first instance or not speaks entirely to the question of whether that learning is occurring successfully or not. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/65 "2017-10-19T13:16:02Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Replace “breaking her nose” with “sucker punching her”. Which can break someone’s nose but doesn’t always. Neither “breaking her nose” nor “sucker punching” are good analogies. For a number of reasons. Someone mentioned dating/mating rituals above. One important difference is that there is almost \*no context in which hitting a girl in the face is appropriate or welcomed, whereas IME there is a point in a relationship in which a pinch on the bottom is received, not with a blow in the face, but with a certain amount of kissing and cuddling. Regards, Shodan \*Maybe you are into that sort of thing. I’m not judging. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/66 "2017-10-19T15:47:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Neither “breaking her nose” nor “sucker punching” are good analogies. For a number of reasons. > > Someone mentioned dating/mating rituals above. One important difference is that there is almost \*no context in which hitting a girl in the face is appropriate or welcomed, whereas IME there is a point in a relationship in which a pinch on the bottom is received, not with a blow in the face, but with a certain amount of kissing and cuddling. > > Regards, > Shodan > > \*Maybe you are into that sort of thing. I’m not judging. Well, the context you are referring to is the welcome/unwelcome dichotomy, which is what separates sexual assault from playful physicality. That aspect should be clear. If it’s not clear, then we have a lot of work to do. Since what we are discussing in this thread is clearly an unwelcome event, then it would be sensible to refrain from framing the behavior as existing on a spectrum of “a point in a relationship”. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/67 "2017-10-19T16:49:43Z")
My point was that a blow in the face is always an unwelcome event, therefore it would be sensible to refrain from comparing it to a pinched butt, which is sometimes unwelcome and sometimes welcome, depending on the point in a relationship. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/68 "2017-10-19T16:51:27Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > It’s rare enough to be newsworthy when it happens, but there was in fact a recent [case](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/florida-12-year-old-arrested-for-pinching-classmates-butt/) where one student was prosecuted for pinching another. Note two things. Charged with battery and not sexual assault, and the parents were the ones that pushed it and signed complaints. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/69 "2017-10-19T17:16:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Neither “breaking her nose” nor “sucker punching” are good analogies. For a number of reasons. > > Someone mentioned dating/mating rituals above. One important difference is that there is almost \*no context in which hitting a girl in the face is appropriate or welcomed, whereas IME there is a point in a relationship in which a pinch on the bottom is received, not with a blow in the face, but with a certain amount of kissing and cuddling. > > Regards, > Shodan > > \*Maybe you are into that sort of thing. I’m not judging. So was it okay for her to punch him? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/70 "2017-10-19T17:38:40Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > So was it okay for her to punch him? From a strictly legal stance, it’s hard to say. What are the sizes of the two people? Is she a trained boxer or martial artist? Was a mild pinch met with a full punch, or was a painful or invasive pinch met with a mild slap? Both acts could be viewed as assault and/or battery, or her reaction could be viewed as a reasonable response. Away from the legal aspect - which shouldn’t be part of the situation, IMO - then I’d say she was justified in letting him know not to touch her. If he was mostly surprised and/or embarrassed, or ended up with a small bruise, it sounds commensurate. If she broke his nose or jaw, I’d say she went overboard. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/71 "2017-10-19T20:12:11Z")
He pinched her ass? Yea, that was wrong obviously, but I wouldn’t consider it a serious situation unless it becomes habitual. A stern lecture from the principal is all that’s warranted. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/72 "2017-10-19T20:33:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We live in a society where the boy (or if the transgressor is a girl, then the girl) is constantly excused, is always given a pass, where we bend over backwards to say that this behavior is “acceptable.” Umm, have you read the other posts in this thread? The initial responses advocated for having adults (parents or principal) explain how the conduct was ‘not okay’ and why. It’s only after somebody what he’d done was equivalent to assault and that he needed to be arrested AND forced to publicly apologize for his behavior that people started defending him. Protecting a MINOR (i.e. somebody still trying to figure out social norms) from an adults emotional reaction (motivated by mistrust of society as a whole) isn’t condoning bad behavior. If you teach kids that touching girls without explicit consent (which also includes things like holding hands, kissing, etc.) when people are around gets them punished and humiliated, they’ll do it when nobody’s around and the girl has nobody to back her up (emotionally or physically) when she says ‘stop’ or ‘no’. Also, if you teach girls that speaking up gets a boy emotionally and socially destroyed, they’ll keep quiet to protect their friend or classmate. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/73 "2017-10-19T20:35:26Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > So was it okay for her to punch him? Yes. The ideal response would have been for everyone else in the school and in his peer group to react with shocked disapproval, and/or his father to inform him firmly that no gentleman puts his hand on a woman without her consent, his mother to guilt the hell out of him by saying that she cannot hold her head up among her friends, and for him to apologize to the lady and confess that he acted dishonorably, and in a way no gentleman would employ. But certainly a lady is within her rights to strike such a cad. The limits on this are practical rather than moral - providing she can defend herself, or is in a situation where others will come to the defense of her honor, go ahead. Having her brother challenge him to a duel might be a bit over the top, however. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/74 "2017-10-19T20:43:50Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > If you teach kids that touching girls without explicit consent (which also includes things like holding hands, kissing, etc.) when people are around gets them punished and humiliated, they’ll do it when nobody’s around and the girl has nobody to back her up (emotionally or physically) when she says ‘stop’ or ‘no’. Also, if you teach girls that speaking up gets a boy emotionally and socially destroyed, they’ll keep quiet to protect their friend or classmate. Or, alternatively, they’ll learn that little girls (or possibly boys) are seriously dangerous objects to be anywhere near, and that any attempt whatever to approach them must be done with major trepidation and walking on eggshells, or maybe even not at all. Remember, these are kids who are just in the early stages of figuring out and learning the rulz. Did you think kids are born instinctively knowing all this stuff? Overblown mal-reactions by adults could lead to kids being severely socially stunted for life. I don’t think this is hypothetical at all. It happens. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/75 "2017-10-19T20:58:11Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > At some point, there needs to be some allowances for the fact that boys don’t start out knowing how to make perfect passes. The learning curve must include the occasional mistake, and correction. Which seems to be what happened. But also tolerance for mistakes, up to a point. > > Charging him I think would be an overreaction. Bullshit, this is something that 5 years olds need to learn and 16 year olds should already know. Of course he should be charged, sexual assault is sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/76 "2017-10-19T21:14:40Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Bullshit, this is something that 5 years olds need to learn and 16 year olds should already know. Of course he should be charged, sexual assault is sexual assault. Where is the winky smilie? You know, the one that lets us know you don’t really mean what you’re writing? Because saying “sexual assault is sexual assault” is clearly preposterous. Just like most zero tolerance laws and policies. A pinch on the butt is not the same as sexual groping, let alone rape. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/77 "2017-10-19T21:31:24Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Where is the winky smilie? You know, the one that lets us know you don’t really mean what you’re writing? > > Because saying “sexual assault is sexual assault” is clearly preposterous. Just like most zero tolerance laws and policies. A pinch on the butt is not the same as sexual groping, let alone rape. What’s a pinch in the butt if not sexual assault? it is absolutely sexual groping, I don’t understand how you could call it anything else. I would imagine the people who think 16 year olds need to be taught not to touch people inappropriately are the ones who need to clarify whether they are joking or not. Just to make things clear, this event did not happen in a kindergarten and the OP accidentally added a 1 in front of their ages right? ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/78 "2017-10-19T21:52:09Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Bullshit, this is something that 5 years olds need to learn and 16 year olds should already know. Of course he should be charged, sexual assault is sexual assault. If the kid gets registered-sex-offender status (or threatened with it like [this kid](http://reason.com/blog/2017/05/24/16-year-old-commits-suicide-after-school) was for recording consensual sex with a girl his age) over a butt pinch and kills himself, you’ll think it was worth it? As another poster asked in this thread, and was ignored, would you support the same consequences if a girl pinched a boy’s butt? He could punch her face and you’d approve? She should get prosecuted, go to prison, face possible rape, beatings or medical neglect in prison, have trouble going to college and getting jobs, possibly never be able to be around children ever again or for years? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/79 "2017-10-19T22:08:33Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > If the kid gets registered-sex-offender status (or threatened with it like [this kid](http://reason.com/blog/2017/05/24/16-year-old-commits-suicide-after-school) was for recording consensual sex with a girl his age) over a butt pinch and kills himself, you’ll think it was worth it? You think we shouldn’t punish people who commit crimes because they might not like it and kill themselves? what kind of moronic reasoning is that, holy fuck. > [@](#): > > As another poster asked in this thread, and was ignored, would you support the same consequences if a girl pinched a boy’s butt? He could punch her face and you’d approve? She should get prosecuted, go to prison, face possible rape, beatings or medical neglect in prison, have trouble going to college and getting jobs, possibly never be able to be around children ever again or for years? Yes, though she would be unlikely to face any real punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220/80 "2017-10-19T22:11:45Z")
> [@dstarfire](#): > > Umm, have you read the other posts in this thread? …yep. > [@](#): > > The initial responses advocated for having adults (parents or principal) explain how the conduct was ‘not okay’ and why. > > It’s only after somebody what he’d done was equivalent to assault and that he needed to be arrested AND forced to publicly apologize for his behavior that people started defending him. Have you read the thread? Did you actually read the OP? The question about sexual assault charges was introduced in the very first post. It is the basis of this thread. > [@](#): > > Protecting a MINOR (i.e. somebody still trying to figure out social norms) from an adults emotional reaction (motivated by mistrust of society as a whole) isn’t condoning bad behavior. > > If you teach kids that touching girls without explicit consent (which also includes things like holding hands, kissing, etc.) when people are around gets them punished and humiliated, they’ll do it when nobody’s around and the girl has nobody to back her up (emotionally or physically) when she says ‘stop’ or ‘no’. Also, if you teach girls that speaking up gets a boy emotionally and socially destroyed, they’ll keep quiet to protect their friend or classmate. And you make my point for me. Its all about the boy. Its all about protecting the boy who is just trying to figure out social norms. Its about protecting the boy from adult over-reaction. Its all about not punishing the boy. Its all about not humiliating the boy. Lets not emotionally and socially destroy the boy. Just keep quiet. Protect the boy. This is why people don’t speak up. You have not once talked about the humiliation of the girl. You haven’t talked about protecting the girl. About her feelings. About what she needs. Your attitude is so normalized in society that you can’t even see what you’ve just done. You are bending over backwards to say this behavior is “acceptable.” That the girl should be limited in how she should be allowed to respond. That the girl has to consider the feelings of the boy, even though the boy did not consider the feelings of the girl when he decided to cop a feel. The girl needs to be logical: but the boy should be allowed to figure out “social norms.” We have someone in this thread using a video from a comedy show where everybody on camera has signed a consent form as evidence that “people don’t appear traumatized.” We have unwanted touching characterized as “playful pinching.” We have someone who, in response to the question "What is the appropriate reaction to someone giving your privates a “mild squeeze” responded with “Boom chicka wow wow.” We have someone saying we need to make allowances for the fact that boys don’t know how to make “perfect passes.” There is someone who thinks that making the boy face consequences might make him “socially stunted for life”: and may never approach girls again. I’ll repeat what I said before. I am not advocating criminal charges based on an anecdote told to the OP from an acquaintance about another lady’s daughter. There may or may not be more to the story than we know: which could make the story more innocuous than described, or much much worse. What I am saying is that the interests of the boy (except, of course, in the determination of guilt or innocence) are not more important than the interests of the girl. She needs support. She needs to move forward with the decision that feels right for her. And if that means moving forward with criminal charges then I don’t give a fuck what that means for the boy. And if she chooses to do nothing at all, then that is the right decision for her, and she should be supported and helped in every way possible. On preview: I just see now that someone has just used the threat of the boy “killing himself” as another way of keeping the girl silent. This is why people don’t come forward. This is why “Me Too” has become such a heartbreaking hashtag. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault-scenario/799220.md?page=5)