# sexual assault
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 22, 2000, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370 "2000-11-22T21:36:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@prei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/prei)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2000, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/1 "2000-11-22T21:36:34Z")
i’ve heard of it, but i wonder if there are any genuine, documented cases of a woman forcing a man against his will to engage in sexual intercourse.
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### Author:  [@melchizedek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melchizedek)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/2 "2000-11-22T21:40:18Z")
I remember reading about it in a newspaper about 15 years ago, some guy in FLA.
Boy, she must have been something really rotten to have a man NOT want to…
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### Author:  [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2000, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/3 "2000-11-22T21:47:47Z")
Let’s see, there’s the famous one of the School teacher (Mary Kay Latourneax ??spelling).
In addition, there’s been several cases of women being prosecuted under CSC laws (criminal sexual conduct laws), incidents including a woman attacking another woman, two young girls selling another girl to some guys in exchange for drugs (the two girls are doing substantial time, the guys are doing time and will be deported immediately afterward IIRC).
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### Author:  [@scratch1300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch1300)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/4 "2000-11-22T21:53:47Z")
There are numerous taped episodes of such encounters in my local video store – you know, the one with the frosted-over windows?
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### Author:  [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)
#### Post date: [November 22, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/5 "2000-11-22T21:56:42Z")
Well, it doesn’t fit the “classic” stranger with a knife scenario, but on surveys quite a number of men report that they have had sex when they really didn’t want to. Usually it involved a woman who used what I guess you would call emotional blackmail–questioning his sexuality, threatening to tell other people, abusing authority-- whatever.
It’s not how people usually define rape, and the men rarely report it to anyone–it’s hard enough for women to convince people that sex sometimes isn’t consensual, but the men do report that they found it upsetting.
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### Author:  [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/6 "2000-11-23T00:23:36Z")
Talked about here before way way too much…Doesn’t that search thing work?
Lots of guys must get excited by guns & knives. Kinky guys.
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### Author:  [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/7 "2000-11-23T01:29:28Z")
There is no such thing as Sexual Assault in Florida, though the ignorant ass media and newspapers would have you believe otherwise.
An _assault_ is a threat or a failed attempt at some unlawful touching. Like if I swung at you with my fist or a basebal bat but misssed- that would be an assault or aggravated assault respectively.
A _battery_ is an unlawful touching. If I swug at you and HIT you with my fist or a baseball bat, it would be a battery and an aggravated battery respectively.
A **sexual assault** would be (I’m guessing) some rapist who could not find the hole. :rolleyes:
An act you would consider a common ‘rape’ is a sexual battery under Florida Statutes… There is no such thing as a Sexual Assault. I grind my teeth everytime I hear a newsman say it or read it in the paper.
The only thing worse on the ears than that would be ‘Attempted Second Degree Murder’… but that explanation is for another thread…
BTW, I have heard several stories\* of women raping men. Real forceful rapes to, not just the mind game thing. It is not the man’s fault for getting hard!! Just the same, it is not the woman’s fault if she gets really wet and orgasms while she is getting raped… these things make a person feel guilty, but it happens, and it is natural. So it is very possible to rape a man at knife point and have him stay hard.
\*These were told by detectives at the academy, so they have more merit than 'Someone once told me a story about… ’
Most of them occurred in Mental Institutions and things like that… but they occurred elsewhere as well…
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### Author:  [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/8 "2000-11-23T01:33:26Z")
and of course, there’s no physical reason why a woman could not use an object to anally rape a man, too. Aren’t you glad you asked this question?
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### Author:  [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/9 "2000-11-23T01:42:01Z")
Let’s not forget hermaphrodites, who rape everybody!
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### Author:  [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/10 "2000-11-23T01:59:23Z")
This concept is so simple. Speaking as a guy, let me state that it is **impossible** for a woman (lacking any, ahem, apparatus) to be guilty of raping a man. No way, no how. Put simply, if a guy’s who-ha was at attention, he was asking for it. Physically, emotionally, and ignoring the issue of age, legally.
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### Author:  [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/11 "2000-11-23T02:19:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \*
> \*\*This concept is so simple. Speaking as a guy, let me state that it is **impossible** for a woman (lacking any, ahem, apparatus) to be guilty of raping a man. No way, no how. Put simply, if a guy’s who-ha was at attention, he was asking for it. Physically, emotionally, and ignoring the issue of age, legally. \*\*
This is completely wrong, for any of a number of reasons. First, rape covers more than just “tab a, slot b”: a woman who forces a man to perform cunnilingus, or who forcibly performs fellatio on a man (whether or not erect), commits rape. (You at least mentioned the possibility of the use of objects, but wrongly dismissed it.) Second, men can get erections without even being conscious, let alone willing, so a woman who mounts a sleeping but erect man commits rape. Third, there are men who lack the capacity to grant consent due to age, mental defect, or (temporarily) intoxication; a woman who has sex with such a man commits rape. (You at least admitted that this is possible due to age, but ignored both mental defect and intoxication.) Fourth, the mere fact that a man’s penis is tumescent is not proof that he has the conscious desire to have sex with any woman in his vicinity. An erection is not proof of consent. Men (in my experience) do not generally have the ability to cause their penises to rise and fall on command.
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### Author:  [@peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peace)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/12 "2000-11-23T02:25:40Z")
**Bear\_Nenno Let’s not forget hermaphrodites, who rape everybody!**
What does it mean? Do you know, Bear?
**Wring** why a woman could not use an object to anally rape a man\*\*
She could, and, if against his will, it would have been an “asault”, but where is the “sexual” part? Was she naked? Or you are gay?
Seriously speaking, “sexual asault” (or “battery”, Bear) is an oxymoron.
“Usual” rapes are motivated by poorly understood burst of aggressive violence, not sexual urgency.
Released prisonners (after what? years in isolation) are not known to commit rape at a greter rate than “free” people. It’s exlusively male crime, so it’s thought that testosterone has something to do with it, but the connection is very foggy. It could be a personality disorder: a “typical” rapist is usually sees himself (and orten is) a “failure in life” and rape seems to him the right way to establish himself, to show the world that he is capable of something.
“Date-rape” could be different. It starts as consensual “something”. Although every man is capable of stopping at any time physiologically, psychologically, many misjudge and proceed. The other party, hoping that “the friend” will stop any second now that she appeals to his reason, does not (perhaps subconsciesly) resist at the top of her capacity (or is unable because of intoxication).
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### Author:  [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/13 "2000-11-23T02:36:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> An erection is not proof of consent
Well, in terms of being in bed, with that woman, um, yes it is. You may have regret later, but your giving consent now.
The issues of mental capacity you mentioned, I agree with. And age, I somewhat agree with. But there is a double standard (albeit a correct one). All other things being equal, a 20 year old guy having sex with a 13 year old girl is absolutely uncomparible to a 20 year old woman having sex with a 13 year old boy. Neither are “good” and the boy certainly may be harmed psychologically, but if the boy was willing enough to be arroused he is not going to even approach the mental trauma that an unwilling 13 year old girl would.
That teacher, Mary Kay something, is mentally ill and should not go unpunished. But that case was **not** one of “child rape”. She is not a “sexual predator”. She’s more of a manic depressive.
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### Author:  [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/14 "2000-11-23T02:37:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by peace \*
> [B **Wring** why a woman could not use an object to anally rape a man\*\*
> She could, and, if against his will, it would have been an “asault”, but where is the “sexual” part? Was she naked? Or you are gay?\*\*
My sexual preference is not part of the equation here. In my state, the laws about CSC states stuff like “the touching of or penetration of” and names orifices, and parts of the body, “for the purposes of sexual gratification”, then also goes on to describe other factors (age and relationship -ie if it’s parent/child, teacher etc), and other factors (weapon, multiple actors, etc). So, a woman who groped a man, shoved something up an orifice of the man, caused him to place his hands or mouth onto/into her vagina, breast, buttocks etc , placed her hand or mouth onto his sexual organ, buttocks etc. would be charged with Criminal Sexual Conduct.
While you may be correct in that most folks charged with the crime of CSC are male, it is patently true that not all of them are. While I agree that ‘rape’ is best understood as a crime of aggression, I don’t believe you really understand the “released prisonners” thing (how many do you know? I’ve known thousands, it’s what I do for a living) further, your assesment of the “typical rapist” , well, where did you come up with it? doesn’t match those I’ve known very well at all.
Date rapes do **not** always start out as a “consensual” anything, it’s a term often applied when the rapist is some one the victim knows. and once again, I’m wondering where you’re getting your assumptions from.
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### Author:  [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/15 "2000-11-23T02:47:05Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \*
> \*\*Well, in terms of being in bed, with that woman, um, yes it is. You may have regret later, but your giving consent now.
> \*\*
I disagree with that. What if the man goes to bed not expecting a woman to crawl in next to him, and gets an erection because of a wet dream? Is that license for his unexpected bedguest to fuck him? I think not.
How about a woman who impersonate a man’s girlfriend in order to obtain sex from him? (This one is legally touchy, but generally consent induced by fraud is void.)
Any sexual contact to which both parties involved did not consent at the time the contact took place is rape (substitute whatever silly phrase your state has chosen to use in place of “rape” here). That includes the case where a party consented to nonsexual contact but not sexual contact, or to sexual contact of a different variety than that which actually happened.
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### Author:  [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/16 "2000-11-23T03:40:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> This concept is so simple. Speaking as a guy, let me state that it is impossible for a woman (lacking any, ahem, apparatus) to be guilty of raping a man. No way, no how. Put simply, if a guy’s who-ha was at attention, he was asking for it. Physically, emotionally, and ignoring the issue of age, legally.
You chauvanistic little female Nazi.
You are factually incorrect, and propogating a myth just as insidious and virulent as the “Rape Myth.” An erection is an entirely autonomic reflex, and it can be controlled not more than you can control your digestion if it is based upon any type of physical touching. People who are otherwise paralysed from the lumbar section of the spinal cord (above where the penis connects) are entirely capable of sexual function, even without feeling it.
You are just plain wrong.
If you want cite’s check out David G. Myer’s \Psychology\, 5th edition.
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### Author:  [@MrWhy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrWhy)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/17 "2000-11-23T03:52:36Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \*
> \*\*This concept is so simple. Speaking as a guy, let me state that it is **impossible** for a woman (lacking any, ahem, apparatus) to be guilty of raping a man. No way, no how. Put simply, if a guy’s who-ha was at attention, he was asking for it. Physically, emotionally, and ignoring the issue of age, legally. \*\*
Are you seriously suggesting that you have never, ever had an involuntary erection? Never _ever_? Not _once_? _Never_ woken up with one in the morning? _Never_ have one when you were going through puberty? _Never_ got one from something (pants, bike seat, whatever) rubbing/pressing the wrong way? I’m not trying to be smart but if this was the case I’d honestly think something was wrong.
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### Author:  [@peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peace)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/18 "2000-11-23T04:24:44Z")
Wring, what I am saying, that sticking objects in man’s ass is not “sex” to him, no matter what the law says (I ain’t a lawyer). Perhaps, _she_ is satisfied sexually, but what if she sticks something in my ear? Would it be a “sexual” asault? If she is not naked?
Q (how many do you know? I’ve known thousands, it’s what I do for a living)
You beat me here. I do not befriend prisonners for living. Nor do I sosialize with them. I have a good company as is. How many ones of “thousands” of sex-deprived ex-prisonners commited rape? I do not recall a single article about this, so no references.
I can’t cite sources in which rape was NOT described as a means of sexual gratification. Perhaps you can provide us with references which prove it (or dismiss aggressive violence).
Q. Date rapes do not always start out as a “consensual” anything, it’s a term often applied when the rapist is some one the victim knows. and once again, I’m wondering where you’re getting your assumptions from.
Is it a lawyer’s terms game? It is implicitly understood here that she knows the man she contests to.
I am getting my assumptions from my head. What about you? I know that you are a lawyer, that’s why I am asking (mods, “lawyer” is not an offensive term yet, is it?)
We are not in court, so I am talking about usual cases, statistically, not about any particular case, idlawyer.
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### Author:  [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/19 "2000-11-23T14:38:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \*
> \*\*This concept is so simple. Speaking as a guy, let me state that it is **impossible** for a woman (lacking any, ahem, apparatus) to be guilty of raping a man. No way, no how. Put simply, if a guy’s who-ha was at attention, he was asking for it. Physically, emotionally, and ignoring the issue of age, legally. \*\*
Hail, speaking as a guy, let me say that you are a freaking idiot…
I just explained in my previous post how this is completely WRONG!! It is mentality like yours that prevents many men to come forward!! The same mentality says that if the woman was wearing revealing clothes then she was ‘asking’ for it. A woman is allowed to say ‘NO’ at any moment. ANY!!! I dont care if she just slobbed your knob, if she says no to the ‘sex’, it is rape.
BTW, sticking a broom handle up someone’s ass is ‘sexual battery’ in Florida. (Provided victim did not want the broom up his butt in the first place). You do not have to be ‘gay’ for this to be ‘sexual battery’. Any penetration of the anus is rape. Any union or penetration of any object or body part with the vagina is rape. Union of an object or body part with the anus is just battery though.
**wring** , does your state laws really say “for the purposes of sexual gratification”? Damn… any good lawyer could get a rapist off the hook there. Rapes are not about sexual pleasure (I think someone mentioned this in an earlier post). Raping is a power and control thing… not a sex thing.
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### Author:  [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2000, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-assault/42370/20 "2000-11-23T14:45:38Z")
> [@](#):
>
> All other things being equal, a 20 year old guy having sex with a 13 year old girl is absolutely uncomparible to a 20 year old woman having sex with a 13 year old boy. Neither are “good” and the boy certainly may be harmed psychologically, but if the boy was willing enough to be arroused he is not going to even approach the mental trauma that an unwilling 13 year old girl would.
Yes, he will. I’ve seen the aftereffects. It’s not pretty.
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