# Sexual Harassment and the Code of Military Justice **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 27, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527 "2022-01-27T20:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/1 "2022-01-27T20:45:41Z")
Sexual harassment has been added to the code of military justice. The news story mention the murder of a female soldier. Eddie Slovik was court martialed and shot for desertion in WWII. Does the military try and execute one soldier for killing another, or do they turn the accused over to a civilian court? I recall a soldier who was caught using drugs, and was turned over to the Turkish courts, and did prison time in Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/2 "2022-01-27T20:47:27Z")
It really pisses me off that it took this long. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/3 "2022-01-27T20:56:39Z")
I assume the OP is referencing this case for those who want more info: > **[Vanessa Guillén's murder led the U.S. to deem military sexual harassment a crime](https://www.npr.org/2022/01/27/1076143481/vanessa-guillen-murder-military-sexual-harassment-crime)** > > Spc. Vanessa Guillén was murdered by a fellow soldier in 2020. "My little sister shed light on the epidemic of sexual misconduct in the military" Mayra Guillén said. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/4 "2022-01-27T21:10:51Z")
Yes, thanks, Whack-a-mole. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/5 "2022-01-27T21:12:48Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Eddie Slovik was court martialed and shot for desertion in WWII. Does the military try and execute one soldier for killing another, or do they turn the accused over to a civilian court? I recall a soldier who was caught using drugs, and was turned over to the Turkish courts, and did prison time in Turkey. I think if a soldier commits a crime while on active duty they are subject to a court-martial ([example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan#Court-martial)). In general I think this is worse for the defendant. They would have more protection in a civilian criminal court. If they are off-duty (out of uniform and off base) but still active in the military I am not sure how that works. In the case of a foreign country the US can turn the person over to local authorities. Sometimes this happens with embassy staff/ambassadors. The country can protect the person or leave them for the locals. Politics that will decide that. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/6 "2022-01-27T22:12:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > pisses me off that it took this long. And yet, it is still not a criminal offense in the civilian world. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/7 "2022-01-27T22:24:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > > Eddie Slovik was court martialed and shot for desertion in WWII. Does the military try and execute one soldier for killing another, or do they turn the accused over to a civilian court? I recall a soldier who was caught using drugs, and was turned over to the Turkish courts, and did prison time in Turkey. > > I think if a soldier commits a crime while on active duty they are subject to a court-martial ([example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan#Court-martial)). In general I think this is worse for the defendant. They would have more protection in a civilian criminal court. > > If they are off-duty (out of uniform and off base) but still active in the military I am not sure how that works. > > In the case of a foreign country the US can turn the person over to local authorities. Sometimes this happens with embassy staff/ambassadors. The country can protect the person or leave them for the locals. Politics that will decide that. Anecdata, but I saw an episode of _Cops_ set in New Orleans during Mardi Gras. The NOPD busted a pair of sailors off a Navy warship in port. Nothing too serious, if I recall - drunk and disorderly, or fighting, or something like that. Anyway, they took the two sailors back to the police station and turned them over to a naval officer with a couple of MPs, who hauled them back to the ship. From the way he talked to them, they weren’t going to enjoy the next few days. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/8 "2022-01-28T02:01:13Z")
The Status of Forces Agreement or Visiting Forces Agreement is what’s used to determine if serving United States military members are surrendered to host country legal authorities. We do have people incarcerated overseas. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/9 "2022-01-28T02:08:24Z")
Does that agreement say the US will never hand over someone who has committed a crime in that country? Or, it is optional? Or, they will hand them over every time? (really asking) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/10 "2022-01-28T02:15:30Z")
No, it does not say the US will never hand over someone who’s committed a crime in the host country. As I mentioned, we do have service members currently serving time in foreign prison. The main factor in the decision is if the alleged offense occurred while the alleged perpetrator was carrying out his official duties. The [Yangju highway incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangju_highway_incident), twenty years ago, has some good information on the issue of jurisdiction in the SOFA. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/11 "2022-01-28T02:18:04Z")
My friend was caught with dope on base, and did time in a Turkish prison with his teeth falling out until his Mother was able to sell some of his stuff so that he could bribe his way out. A chaplain told him he was serving his country by proving that the USA respected the laws of other governments. But will the US military try and execute someone in uniform for killing another person in uniform on a USA base? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/12 "2022-01-28T02:26:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > But will the US military try and execute someone in uniform for killing another person in uniform on a USA base? To the same extent any other jurisdiction can, sure. Which is to say there’s a trial and appeals and all kinds of hand-ringing and kicking the ball, to the point that the US military hasn’t actually executed a servicemember (legally) since 1961, and that was actually for rape of a civilian girl in Austria. The most infamous military death row inmate (Nidal Hasan, tried by court-martial) was, however, convicted for precisely that: murdering fellow soldiers on base. > **[List of people executed by the United States military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_by_the_United_States_military)** > > The following is a list of people executed by the United States military. The list separates executions by branches; the Uniform Code of Military Justice did not exist until 1950. > The United States Army carried out 141 executions over a three-year period from 1942 to 1945 and a further six executions were conducted during the postwar period, for a known total of 147. These figures do not include individuals executed by the US Army after being convicted by US Military Courts for violations of th... ETA: That link includes a very short list of current military death row inmates. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/13 "2022-01-28T05:31:24Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > My friend was caught with dope on base, and did time in a Turkish prison with his teeth falling out until his Mother was able to sell some of his stuff so that he could bribe his way out. Reminds me of a movie (not exactly). ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/14 "2022-01-28T05:51:12Z")
Back to the subject of sexual harassment in the military. As reported in the link provided above: "The [National Defense Authorization Act includes several measures that reform how the military treats sexual harassment or assault. Most of those measures were drawn from or inspired by the I Am Vanessa Guillén Act: - When military personnel are missing or absent without leave, their commanders must immediately share information with local and federal agencies; - Sexual harassment complaints must be handled through independent investigations; - The Secretary of Defense must assess on-base living quarters and take measures “to prevent crime, including sexual assault,” such as ensuring sleeping areas’ have locking doors and windows; - The Department of Defense will track “allegations of retaliation by victims of sexual assault or sexual harassment.” Looks pretty strong to me. Here is a link to the Executive Order itself: > **[FACT SHEET: Executive Order, 2022 Amendments to the Manual for Courts-Martial...](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/01/26/fact-sheet-executive-order-2022-amendments-to-the-manual-for-courts-martial/)** > > Today, President Biden signed an Executive Order to amend the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which is key to advancing the historic, bipartisan ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/15 "2022-01-28T08:19:13Z")
Personally, I think a major reform of the Uniform Code of Military Justice is in order. Don’t get me wrong; I welcome this addition and it is long overdue. Currently, there isn’t really a distinction between misdemeanor and felony in that system. There are different avenues which a commanding officer can use to pursue a case, ranging from nonjudicial punishment (which title is a blatant lie as the commanding officer, or designated other officer adjudicates the case and determines guilt and punishment), to summary court-martial, to special court-martial, and finally general court-martial. Then there’s the unconstitutional, IMHO, of Sailors and Marines serving at sea being denied their right to request trial in lieu of NJP, and denied the right to appeal the CO’s decision except as to severity of punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2022, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/16 "2022-01-28T08:32:24Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > My friend was caught with dope on base, and did time in a Turkish prison with his teeth falling out until his Mother was able to sell some of his stuff so that he could bribe his way out. Was your friend in the military himself or was he a family member accompanying a military member? Service members caught on base with drugs are caught by the Military Police and are subjected to military punishment, as I recall. > [@](#): > > A chaplain told him he was serving his country by proving that the USA respected the laws of other governments. Odd statement, but fair enough. Not only that, but he SOFA is also US law, as it’s a treaty approved by Congress. > [@](#): > > But will the US military try and execute someone in uniform for killing another person in uniform on a USA base? Technically, yes; however, it has been quite some time since the US millitary has carried out an execution. ETA: As a point of information, US military bases overseas are not United States territory. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/17 "2022-01-29T00:01:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > The Status of Forces Agreement or Visiting Forces Agreement is what’s used to determine if serving United States military members are surrendered to host country legal authorities. We do have people incarcerated overseas. This was made very clear to us prior to deploying overseas. I think a lot of the younger troops thought it was just a scare tactic, but when we arrived in Spain and inherited a guy who was still there from two previous deployed battalions, it was pretty sobering. Seems he was in a town bar when the Guardia raided the place and found someone holding pot. They arrested everybody in the place, even though this guy had nothing on him. He was released on bail to the U.S. military with the stipulation that he could not leave the base until the Spanish government decided what to do with him. He had been there for over two years by the time we got there and was definitely on the squirrely side. Then a day came when the base was contacted and told “you have 24 hours to get him out of our country.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/18 "2022-01-29T00:17:04Z")
It seems odd that the Army would cooperate with those circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/19 "2022-01-29T01:14:30Z")
Where a Status of Forces Agreement is in place, it kind of has to. Not merely because of how the host country might react, but how the US government may react when the host country protests a violation of the SOFA. [A US Naval officer was recently sentenced](https://www.stripes.com/branches/navy/2021-10-18/yokosuka-navy-officer-prison-sentence-fatal-car-crash-3282983.html) to a Japanese prison, by a Japanese court, for negligent driving causing death. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527/20 "2022-01-29T02:15:31Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > [A US Naval officer was recently sentenced](https://www.stripes.com/branches/navy/2021-10-18/yokosuka-navy-officer-prison-sentence-fatal-car-crash-3282983.html) to a Japanese prison, by a Japanese court, for negligent driving causing death. We were told that if you are in a Japanese prison, you’d better learn the language, because the guards will not speak English and you’re expected to follow commands immediately. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-and-the-code-of-military-justice/958527.md?page=2)