# Sexual Harassment: I've had enough thankyouverymuch. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2001, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521 "2001-08-22T12:10:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/61 "2001-08-24T02:49:40Z")
Is the fire chief bi? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/62 "2001-08-24T02:53:45Z")
Damn you for ruining my joke with the simulpost, **Mangeorge**! 😉 But I think the point is that if he wants to dominate all genders, then he’s harassing them because he wants to dominate everyone. Their gender is irrelevant, so there’s no causal link between the gender and the harassment, and therefore no violation of Title VII. You don’t break the law just by being an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/63 "2001-08-24T03:26:37Z")
Well then, **minty** , that distinction sucks. I’m sure the victims feel they were assaulted because of their gender. So all I have to do at work is be sure that if I grab a woman’s crotch, I better grab a man’s too? Oh, sorry. Didn’t mean to step on you’re joke. It was pretty funny anyway. (Boy, that was awkward. 😉 ) Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/64 "2001-08-24T04:11:45Z")
If you harass a woman employee because of her gender, you’re liable for sexual harassment. If you harass a male employee to cover up your sexual harassment of a female employee, you’re not liable for sexually harassing the man. The key is the “because of” requirement of Title VII. Harass a person because of his gender and you’d better have good insurance. Harass a person because you want an alibi and you don’t owe anyone a penny under Title VII. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/65 "2001-08-24T14:06:12Z")
Which is not to say that the crotch-grabbing is not a compensable assault - it’s just not sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/66 "2001-08-24T14:10:35Z")
Aw, but there’s no attorney’s fees for winning an assault suit, **ENugent**! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/67 "2001-08-24T17:30:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Aw, but there’s no attorney’s fees for winning an assault suit, **ENugent**! 😉 \*\* Seems to me that there are - An assault (as described above) certainly is subject to criminal action, however, any crime victim can also file a civil suit for individual compensatory damages, n’est-ce-pas? (remember OJ???) Seems to me in this case to be a perfect example of such. Against the supervisor personally (easy to win, questionable amount of compensation) certainly, and perhaps also against the company (for failure to adequatedly supervise their supervisor, assuming of course, that ‘assaulting one’s employees’ isn’t part of their management handbook’ ) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/68 "2001-08-24T17:51:49Z")
It’s worth pointing out that gender-based harassment, forbidden by Title VII, creates a federal cause of action. Assault, and whatever torts may arise from it, would be heard by state courts. The point of the commentary I mention above (and I wish I could find it now! I thought it might have been a law review article, but evidently not) was that this fire chief seemed safe from Title VII litigation - as \*_minty green_ points out, being an asshole is not actionable under federal law. 🙂 - Rick ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/69 "2001-08-24T18:30:45Z")
**wring;** What I meant was that Title VII specifically provides for attorney’s fees to be awarded to a prevailing plaintiff in a discrimination case. That’s not the case with a run-of-the-mill tort suit (assault is an intentional tort), where everybody pays for their own lawyers, and the plaintiff usually pays the attorney out of the recovery. Sorry for any confusion. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2001, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521/70 "2001-08-24T18:45:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\ ***wring;** What I meant was that Title VII specifically provides for attorney’s fees to be awarded to a prevailing plaintiff in a discrimination case. That’s not the case with a run-of-the-mill tort suit (assault is an intentional tort), where everybody pays for their own lawyers, and the plaintiff usually pays the attorney out of the recovery. Sorry for any confusion. \*\* \*\* Minty\*\* ok, gotcha. And I agree, too w/ **Bricker** , being an asshole boss is not always actionable. Like I point out to my clients, “discrimination” itself isn’t always illegal, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sexual-harassment-ive-had-enough-thankyouverymuch/77521.md?page=3)