# SF: any alien races with cultural diversity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 19, 2004, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834 "2004-07-19T16:00:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/41 "2004-07-20T14:32:16Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > (Xindi Avians = dead) Or are they just _mostly_ dead? ---
**Author:** ![Graycat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Graycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Graycat)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/42 "2004-07-20T14:36:33Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Now that you bring it up…are there any Reptilian or Insectoid aliens races in fiction who _aren’t_ jerks? > > Granted, it’d be a little weird to see a species of Mantisoid space-hippies, or something… The Thranx in Alan Dean Foster’s Humanx Commonwealth series are an insectoid species that are very much not jerks. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/43 "2004-07-20T14:54:05Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Star Trek:Voyager introduced us to brown-skinned Vulcans, though how they retconned that I don’t know. Tuvok was never retconned and no mention of him being dark was ever made. With Vulcan (the planet) being so close to its rather largish sun, it actually makes more sense for Vulcans (the species) to be more thoroughly pigmented. > [@Mennochio](#): > > It may not count since they moved to a different planet, but technically speaking, Romulans are a different Vulcan ethnic group. It counts. Hawaiians have only been living in Hawaii for a little over a thousand years and they’re considered a unique culture in and of themselves. > [@CandidGamera](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > And while we do have different Vulcan races on Star Trek, they all seem to be the same culture. This, at least, is partly explained by the Romulans: Any member of the Vulcan species who does not embrace logic would be a Romulan, not a Vulcan, and would either leave the planet or act as a subversive agent from within. > > I disagree. > > We’ve been shown Vulcan subsects a few times. On Enterprise, the “Mind Melders”, for instance. Spock’s Brother in Star Trek V was not a subscriber to the overall philosphy of Vulcans, and he was certainly no Romulan. (Though I can’t recall whether or not that movie made mention of others like him). > > Also, the Vulcan Mystics depicted in Star Trek III seem quite different from the usual scientists and diplomats we see from Vulcan. They may not have a distinct culture, but they’re certainly differentiated. Don’t forget the Vulcans that choose to undergo _Kolinahr_. They would be the Vulcan equivalent to the Greek Stoics. > [@Kilt-wearin' man](#): > > On Star Trek, there was some discussion of Bajorans who don’t buy the whole “Celestial Temple and Prophets” religion (Ro Laren being an example)… Some, including Winn Adami in its last episodes, also worshiped the Pagh Wraiths which would be the equivalent of Satanists here. > [@Peter Morris](#): > > In one episode of DS9 Rom forms a trade union. (I think the episode was called Bar Asociation IIRC) In “What You Leave Behind”, he also becomes the Grand Nagus of the Ferengi Alliance, making him the President and CEO of their capitalist empire. If we ever get to visit them again, it’d be interesting to see the changes in their culture. > [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > That reminds me of a Ferengi in TNG who was more interested in seeking pleasure rather than profit. I’d consider the Ferengi to be hedonistic capitalists. After all, the main function of Quark’s holosuites is virtual prostitution and the bar itself is self-explanatory in its function. Better examples would be Rom, the union activist; Nog, the Starfleet officer; Moogie, the female that earns profit; and the Ferengi scientist in the TNG episode that develops metaphasic shielding. That same episode also had a Klingon scientist. I post way too much about Trek. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/44 "2004-07-20T15:02:20Z")
There is an explanation for the cliche… If you were to walk into a room of twenty men, some tall, some average, yet 19 of them were fair skinned with blonde-ish hair, and one was tall and very very dark skinned with short curly dark hair… would he stand out because of being tall? No, he would stand out because because of being black (in most people’s eyes). Substitute any other skin colors or even turn the situation around in skin color ratios (19 black guys, one white) and it still works. Now, make it a room full of humans. Any type. And put in 3 aliens with seven limbs each and a penis growing out of their chin. One alien is pink, one is orange, the other is green. Would they stand out in our mind because of color? No, They would stand out because of being alien. So, just like the old world way of thinking “they (black, indian, asian, whatever) all look alike” that we see in a lot of old fiction, all aliens from a different world would likely seem to be so different in general, that the small individual differences virtually disappear to our senses. Untill we get to know them better. Plus, it’s easier to write them that way. btw, ftr, try not to take offense at any implied/inferred racism in this post. I’m simply using an example to make a point. Many of my best friends are green aliens with penis chins. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/45 "2004-07-20T15:04:08Z")
Granted, this is (sort of) non-canon, but in **The Romulan Way** , Diane Duane clearly makes the point that Romulans, due to the temperate climate of the new homeworld, diversified physiologically. They had different hair color, skin color, interests, hobbies, and political views. She also describes some of the regional cultural and political differences–some of which were contradicted by making the Havrannsu (Remus-dwellers) a race with a separate origin in **Nemesis** , whereas in the book they were just Vulcan settlers with slightly different objectives from the Romulus group. Stargate SG1: - A non-united Earth negotiating with aliens, taking a Cold War stance–Russia being the antagonist (Let’s hope Firefly encourages more creators to put China into this role instead). - Diversity within a species – The Goa’uld are human/scorpion hybrids (like Trill), but they have an amazing range of culture. Their governmental system is fuedal, and each warlord has his/her own dialect and style, relgions. - The planet [Langara](http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/planets/l/langara.shtml), a prominent ally, has three warring countries that have very little in common. - In one episode, the [opposite perspective](http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/618.shtml) is presented: Two biologically different species living in one culture on one planet without any mention of cultural differences based on race. Now, granted, Stargate SG1 might not be classic science fiction, but it deserves as much consideration as Enterprise. 😃 > [@](#): > > Now that you bring it up…are there any Reptilian or Insectoid aliens races in fiction who aren’t jerks? Didn’t the original Star Trek have those cool praying mantis people? And the underworld insect dude in Babylon 5 wasn’t a _jerk_ per se, just a mobster. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/46 "2004-07-20T15:26:00Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I’d consider the Ferengi to be hedonistic capitalists. After all, the main function of Quark’s holosuites is virtual prostitution and the bar itself is self-explanatory in its function. > > Better examples would be Rom, the union activist; Nog, the Starfleet officer; Moogie, the female that earns profit; and the Ferengi scientist in the TNG episode that develops metaphasic shielding. I did some looking and found [Omag](http://www.decipher.com/startrek/cardlists/rulesofacquisition/large/omag.html), the Ferengi I had referred to. Being an arms trader when the major powers are at peace can’t be very profitable and it appears he eats what little profit he does get. ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/47 "2004-07-20T15:28:53Z")
I’m glad someone mentioned the Thranx. Most of Le Guin’s worlds are culturally diverse, I think. I haven’t read _Four Ways To Forgiveness_, but _The Telling_ has a somewhat diversified culture undergoing massive and enforced homogenization. The book’s about that cultural shift. And _The Left Hand Of Darkness_ has at least two distinct countries, and two distinct religions- a communistic society with a Messianic religion, and a royalist society rooted in a Zen-ish one. Someone I know recently described Le Guin’s writing as sf cultural anthropology. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/48 "2004-07-20T15:31:37Z")
First thing that popped into my head was Diane Duane’s non-canon ST novels as well. Particularly a bit in _My Enemy, My Ally_ when she has Kirk looking around at the crew of a captured Vulcan starship and thinking about how he’d become accustomed to thinking of all Vulcans as tall and dark but here were 7 foot tall Vulcans and slight Vulcans and burly Vulcans and fair Vulcans, with ash blonde and light brunet hair and “good Lord, several redheads.” From B5, the tri-caste system of the Minbari might qualify. While within each caste (warrior, religious and I think worker) there is uniformity of dress there is inter-cast variety. From the Wonder Woman TV show, the galactic council from the first season “Judgment in Space” two-parter includes a black female (who’s a total bitch). ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/49 "2004-07-20T15:42:56Z")
> [@Steelerphan](#): > > It does seem to be a science fiction cliche, the one world culture. It’s assumed that mankind can’t deal with other planets without Earth being under one flag- \*Babylon 5, Star Trek, \* and many others share this unspoken creed. David Drake deals with this in _Hammer’s Slammers_: > [@](#): > > The colonies were almost invariably mono-national, under-capitalized and stratified by class even more rigidly than were their mother countries > [@Steelerphan](#): > > Personally, I think it’s more likely that the first colonists to leave Earth for another world will not be sent by a government, they will be a religious or social group looking for a new start. Also from _Hammer’s Slammmers_: The Church of the Lord’s Universe: > [@](#): > > The Church taught that Man must reach the stars and there, among infinite expanses, find room to live in peace. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/50 "2004-07-20T15:47:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > This cliche was (perhaps) unintentionally pointed up in an episode of _Babylon 5,_ when the station hosted a convention showcasing the religious practices of all known sentient races – except humans. And each race appeared to have only one religion. Then at the end Captain Sheridan invited the various ambassadors into a room where he introduced them to a human Catholic priest, Protestant ministers, a rabbi, a Buddhist, an atheist, a Hindu . . . I remember that the reason the Humans were able to do so well as diplomats is because they were the one race that didn’t have a singular culture and so were used to dealing with various dfference cultures and beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/51 "2004-07-20T17:00:52Z")
> [@Rysler](#): > > - Diversity within a species – The Goa’uld are human/scorpion hybrids (like Trill), but they have an amazing range of culture. Their governmental system is fuedal, and each warlord has his/her own dialect and style, relgions. Er, no. The Goa’uld are snake-like alien beings who take over human hosts as parasites. Perhaps you’re thinking of the Jaffa, who are genetically-modified humans. (But I don’t remember scorpions entering into it.) ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/52 "2004-07-20T17:31:41Z")
> [@](#): > > By Ranchoth > Now that you bring it up…are there any Reptilian or Insectoid aliens races in fiction who aren’t jerks? In Andre Norton’s _Star Rangers_, the hero’s sidekick is a reptile, and he’s cooler than the hero. Back to the O.P. : In the novels based on the Star Trek movies(II,III, and IV if I remember right), Vonda McIntyre introduces some diversity into the Klingons. Saavik once attempts to negotiate with a Klingon, but botches it by addressing him in the wrong dialect. In McIntyre’s novels, the Chakobsa ethnic group and the Rumai ethnic group seem to hate each other worse than they hate the non-Klingons. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/53 "2004-07-20T18:44:39Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > I did some looking and found [Omag](http://www.decipher.com/startrek/cardlists/rulesofacquisition/large/omag.html), the Ferengi I had referred to. Being an arms trader when the major powers are at peace can’t be very profitable and it appears he eats what little profit he does get. I stand corrected then. I also forgot that Quark is very non-stereotypical. In an episode I watched recently, Liquidator Brunt of the FCA went on a tirade about how Quark was a pariah and even went so far as to call him a philantropist. > [@Otto](#): > > First thing that popped into my head was Diane Duane’s non-canon ST novels as well. Particularly a bit in My Enemy, My Ally when she has Kirk looking around at the crew of a captured Vulcan starship and thinking about how he’d become accustomed to thinking of all Vulcans as tall and dark but here were 7 foot tall Vulcans and slight Vulcans and burly Vulcans and fair Vulcans, with ash blonde and light brunet hair and “good Lord, several redheads.” Are you sure that was “My Enemy, My Ally”? I’m thinking it was “Spock’s World”. I’ve not read the former in years but I know I’ve read the latter far more recently and I can recall the passage you’re quoting specifically. If I remember right, it was near the end of the book in a large cavern. I also remember there being a hayseed farmer with a quirky dialect. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/54 "2004-07-20T18:55:07Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Are you sure that was “My Enemy, My Ally”? I’m thinking it was “Spock’s World”. The passage I’m referring to is definitely “My Enemy, My Ally,” as I went and grabbed my copy to get the quote right. Pages 248-9, to be precise. There may be something similar in “Spock’s World” as there are scenes set in a large (underground?) meeting hall on Vulcan, at one of which Dr McCoy gives an extremely eloquent speech. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/55 "2004-07-20T19:53:56Z")
What about the Lectroids from Planet 10? There are Red Lectroids & Black Lectroids. (In this erudite group, surely I need not mention the source.) ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/56 "2004-07-20T20:27:27Z")
Poul Anderson’s **After Doomsday** features an alien race, the Monwaing, that not only has divergant cultures within a species, but has one culture gain big time political points by bringing to light the other side’s initiation of an atrocity. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/57 "2004-07-21T00:00:44Z")
Would **The Transformers** count? One planet of sentient robots, divided up into Autobots, Decepticons, Maximals, Predacons, Vehicons, Micromasters, Mini-Cons, neutrals… And to continue the toy vein, I think **Micronauts** would work as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f04885/32.png) [@Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ninja_Pizza_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/58 "2004-07-21T18:18:43Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Now that you bring it up…are there any Reptilian or Insectoid aliens races in fiction who _aren’t_ jerks? The saur in Ken Macleod’s _The Engines Of Light_ series are pretty non-jerk-like, for the most part. Also a fairly monolithic society, or at least it _looks_ that way to the humans who are more or less looking in from the outside at it. It turns out there are factions and subsets and what-not - they’re just not obvious to us hominids. “Saur” is short for dinosaur. They’re from Earth, during the later part of the age of dinosaurs. It’s not said, but strongly implied that the actual reason the dinosaurs went extint was because of the war that involved the saur, the kraken, the Multipliers and the gods. And speaking of the gods: There’s a multi-cultural set of critters for you. They’re made up of extremophile nanobacteria living inside asteroids. Enough nanobacteria make up an “individual”; enough “individuals” make up a culture/society; an asteroid full of cultures/societies makes up a god and a solar system full of gods makes up a solar god. The societies that make up a god go on their merry ways without worrying about it, even though they know they’re part of a god. In one of David Weber & Steve White’s _Starfire_ books an explanation is given for why the Khanate has a single society: they came very, very close to wiping themselves out in a planetary nuclear war and all the survivors were from one society. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/59 "2004-07-21T18:45:09Z")
As for non-asshat SF reptiles… The Narn from _Babylon 5_ were generally sympathetic characters - although the first couple of seasons seemed to be setting them up as the bad guys…right up until the Centauri dropped asteroids on them. Of course, as carefully planned as the whole series was, Straczynski probably planned that twist from the beginning. Grig, _The Last Starfighter_’s Gunstar pilot, was a jovial, friendly reptile. That’s about all I can think of right now. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834/60 "2004-07-21T20:00:13Z")
Aren’t there many SF books that are actually set within the alien cultures? I don’t read much SF, but fantasy books are quite often set within a culture rather than outside looking in. Is that uncommon in SF? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-any-alien-races-with-cultural-diversity/255834.md?page=4)