# SF/fantasy where the humans are (a) good and (b) tough? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635 "2008-10-06T04:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/41 "2008-10-07T22:33:23Z")
Orson Scott Card’s Ender series. We are way in advance of the piggies, but basically good toward them. We try to not give them any technology, but there’s a pretty good reason for that. They carry a disease that can wipe out all life. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/42 "2008-10-07T22:37:19Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > In “The High Crusade” by Poul Anderson, Earth is invaded by aliens in the 14th century and their first landing is near an encampment of crusaders. They get their butts kicked, and the humans take over their spaceship and end up taking over their entire empire. The humans weren’t ever able to find their way back to Earth, and when mankind finally explores space on their own, they are surprised to find a space empire ruled by the descendents of the crusaders. It’s been a while since I read this one, I just read the synopsis on Wikipedia and I was wrong about them being crusaders, they were gathering troops for the 100 Year War. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/43 "2008-10-08T03:59:53Z")
> [@Caveat\_lector\_1](#): > > In John Ringo’s Posleen War Series humans are approached by several more advanced but pacifist species to help them fight the Posleen, a less advanced but very violent species that somehow has obtained intergalactic travel. > > You can read the whole series free here. [Free](http://baencd.thefifthimperium.com/11-UntotheBreachCD/UntotheBreachCD/index.htm) > > It starts with _A Hymn before Battle_. They are pretty good, but I recommend staying away from the sequels he wrote with other authors as I understand they tend to be horrible. > Edit: It seems to be called “Legacy of the Aldenata” series there. I think that’s a “Yes” and a “No.” I’ve read _Die Wacht am Rhein_ and _Yellow Eyes_, both co-authored with Tom Kratman, and considered them good. I especially liked _Rhein_. _Cally’s War,_ co-authored with Julie Cochrane, was interesting in its depiction of the post-war reconstruction of Earth, and the cold-war that was really getting under way between the Bane Sidhe (anti-Darhel collaborators) and the Darhel. But the actual characters and storyline I could’ve done without. Similarly, _The Hero_, co-authored with Michael Z. Williamson, was again facinating for its “snapshot” of human/Galactic society a millennia or so after the Posleen Wars ended, and was a decent enough story in its own right, but tended to drag; a quarter of the story could’ve easily been chopped, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/44 "2008-10-08T04:14:59Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > To the average alien, humans frequently move so quickly that they can’t see the motion Oh, that reminds me–_Mother of Demons_ by Eric Flint would also fall into this category. A small band of humans is marooned on a planet where the natives are intelligent molluscs, and are forced to introduce human knowledge or war. It’s okay if you get a cheap used copy of grab it at the Baen Free Library, but realistically it’s not particularly worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![Caveat\_lector\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@Caveat\_lector\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caveat_lector_1)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/45 "2008-10-08T16:07:28Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I think that’s a “Yes” and a “No.” > > I’ve read _Die Wacht am Rhein_ and _Yellow Eyes_, both co-authored with Tom Kratman, and considered them good. I especially liked _Rhein_. > > _Cally’s War,_ co-authored with Julie Cochrane, was interesting in its depiction of the post-war reconstruction of Earth, and the cold-war that was really getting under way between the Bane Sidhe (anti-Darhel collaborators) and the Darhel. But the actual characters and storyline I could’ve done without. > > Similarly, _The Hero_, co-authored with Michael Z. Williamson, was again facinating for its “snapshot” of human/Galactic society a millennia or so after the Posleen Wars ended, and was a decent enough story in its own right, but tended to drag; a quarter of the story could’ve easily been chopped, IMO. Hmm. Maybe I’ll take a look at them then. All the reviews of them I read tended to trash them and the one excerpt of _Cally’s War_ I read was horrendous so I figured they weren’t worth the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/46 "2008-10-08T16:09:58Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > A small band of humans is marooned on a planet where the natives are intelligent molluscs, and are forced to introduce human knowledge or war. Whoops, that should be “knowledge _of_ war.” One small typo, one big difference in plot… ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/47 "2008-10-08T19:09:33Z")
A related Sci-Fi concept: (But geez I can’t the book/short story names!) Humans are in fact the sickest species in the universe. When we get FTL tech and join galactic society, we make a moolah by being the universe’s best doctors. Our medical knowledge is immensely advanced because we use it constantly Other species don’t get sick as often and generally have little-to-no knowledge of surgery or disease mitigation or cures. But of course, when you’re dealing with multi-billion population planets, even a small percentage of medical needs becomes a lot over time. I’m not sure if you consider this being “tough”, but it’s close. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/48 "2008-10-08T22:10:37Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > A related Sci-Fi concept: (But geez I can’t the book/short story names!) > > Humans are in fact the sickest species in the universe. When we get FTL tech and join galactic society, we make a moolah by being the universe’s best doctors. Our medical knowledge is immensely advanced because we use it constantly Other species don’t get sick as often and generally have little-to-no knowledge of surgery or disease mitigation or cures. But of course, when you’re dealing with multi-billion population planets, even a small percentage of medical needs becomes a lot over time. I’m not sure if you consider this being “tough”, but it’s close. Sounds like Alan Nourse’s “Star Surgeon” (not to be confused with James White’s “Star Surgeon”) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/49 "2008-10-09T00:27:32Z")
A novel called _ **Demon of Undoing** _ had a stray human amongst a race of feudal cat-like aliens. It turned out that humans’ arm and shoulder structure made them much deadlier with a battleax than the natives. And the humans were good, it was just that they accidently introduced concepts so alien to the felinoids’ thinking that it disrupted their society. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635/50 "2008-10-09T01:15:59Z")
In Mercedes Lackey’s urban fantasies humans are ( sometimes ) the good guys, or at least innocent bystanders most of the time. It’s mentioned several times that the real reason the supernaturals are in hiding and/or have retreated to the parallel dimension of Underhill of because if they came out in the open we’d crush them. We wouldn’t distinguish much between the arrogant-but-typically-benevolent supernaturals and the nasty, nasty evil supernaturals, and “Underhill would go under the human militaries like wheat in front of a threshing machine”. Oh, various supernatural types like the elves especially the evil ones like to gas on about how badass they are, and how powerful their magic is; but ultimately, in an open conflict most of them wouldn’t have a chance. We’ve got iron and related metals that disrupt much magic and the very substance of Underhill. We have technology ( “What can mere humans do against us ?” “Very little. But their **steel jacketed bullets** can do much.” ). We are more creative than the elves at least. We have the rare but powerful human mages, who no doubt would reveal themselves and throw in with the humans in a human-Underhill war. And we have numbers, numbers, numbers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-fantasy-where-the-humans-are-a-good-and-b-tough/466635.md?page=2)