# SF stories or series where the 'science' was basically magic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 15, 2025, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076 "2025-04-15T18:13:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/101 "2025-04-19T19:36:29Z")
Which is why I prefer Wells’ approach to Verne’s. I’d rather read a book with made-up science than a book with bad science - I prefer the impossible over the improbable. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/102 "2025-04-20T05:41:05Z")
Neal Stephenson’s novel _Anathem_ has people travelling to parallel universes through unexplained means (possibly just by thinking real hard). It also has items made out of “newmatter” which is a hand-wavy substance that can change shape and physical properties. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/103 "2025-04-20T12:43:43Z")
A somewhat adjacent question: Some science fiction is trying to extrapolate technology based on the science we currently know. Some, as this thread is focused on, is without concern about how things work according to what we know, just whatever seems cool in a story. Probably most that. Are there many imagined alternative universes that would exist if some basic rule was different, changing a basic axiom? Like how mathematicians create non Euclidean geometries? _Flatland_ maybe a bit? (What if life existed in 2D?) I don’t want to count the trivial examples, like including FTL travel here. That is more the no concern group. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/104 "2025-04-20T12:46:48Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Are there many imagined alternative universes that would exist if some basic rule was different, changing a basic axiom? Like how mathematicians create non Euclidean geometries? There’s Greg Egan’s ‘Orthogonal’ trilogy, starting with ‘The Clockwork Rocket’. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/105 "2025-04-20T12:52:24Z")
Didn’t Verne use some sort of spring system to deal with the acceleration? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/106 "2025-04-20T13:05:39Z")
Does it make for an interesting read? ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/107 "2025-04-20T13:33:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Didn’t Verne use some sort of spring system to deal with the acceleration? Been a while since I read the book, but yes, I think he was at least aware of the problem. Mind you, a bit of back-of-the-envelope math is sufficient to show that no kind of shock absorber could be a solution. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/108 "2025-04-20T13:36:28Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Does it make for an interesting read? I enjoyed it, but it was somewhat heavy going in places. It is set in a universe where the geometry of spacetime is radically different from ours. Egan works out the mathematical consequences of this in considerable detail. It would probably appeal only to people who like their science fiction very ‘hard’ indeed, and are not intimidated by a bit of math… ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/109 "2025-04-20T14:22:20Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Does it make for an interesting read? I was going to mention those books, and, as stated, they are really heavy on the math and physics. Another of his books like that is _Schlid’s Ladder_. > **[Schild's Ladder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild%27s_Ladder)** > > Schild's Ladder is a 2002 science fiction novel by Australian author Greg Egan. The book derives its name from Schild's ladder, a construction in differential geometry, devised by the mathematician and physicist Alfred Schild. > Twenty thousand years in the future, Cass, a humanoid physicist from Earth, travels to an orbital station in the vicinity of the star Mimosa, and begins a series of experiments to test the extremities of the "Sarumpaet rules"—a set of fundamental equations in "Quantum ... ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/110 "2025-04-20T20:18:03Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > Been a while since I read the book, but yes, I think he was at least aware of the problem. > > Mind you, a bit of back-of-the-envelope math is sufficient to show that no kind of shock absorber could be a solution. I was surprised, when I reread Journey to the Center of the Earth, that Verne was aware of the commonly accepted model of the inside of the Earth, but his protagonist somehow found the accepted level of heat and pressure was wrong. > [@DSeid](#): > > Are there many imagined alternative universes that would exist if some basic rule was different, changing a basic axiom? Like how mathematicians create non Euclidean geometries? Kind of like this is [Redshift Rendezvous](https://www.amazon.com/Redshift-Rendezvous-John-Stith/dp/096729844X) by John Stith, set in a spaceship traveling in another dimension where c is relatively small and you get relativistic effects in everyday life. It is a murder mystery, and reasonably good. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/111 "2025-04-20T20:40:18Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Neal Stephenson’s novel _Anathem_ has people travelling to parallel universes through unexplained means (possibly just by thinking real hard). It was quantum mechanics - as far as science fantasy writers are concerned, the gift that keeps on giving. With enough skilled bullshitting, a talented writer can explain ANYTHING with quantum mechanics. You see it in _Anathem_, in Dan Simmons’ _Illium/Olympos_ (where quantum mechanics bring Greek myths to life), Mark Lawrence’s _Broken Empire/Red Queen’s War_ (where a particle accelerator makes magic real) and many, many more. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/112 "2025-04-20T22:41:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Are there many imagined alternative universes that would exist if some basic rule was different, changing a basic axiom? I never read it so can’t comment on how good it is, but [Raft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raft_(novel)) by Steve Baxter is an example. It’s set in a universe where gravity is vastly more powerful than in ours. > The story follows a group of humans who have accidentally entered an [alternate universe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_universe_(fiction)) where the [gravitational force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_force) is far stronger than our own, a “billion” times as strong. Planets do not exist, as they would immediately collapse under their own gravity; stars are only a mile across and have extremely brief life-spans, becoming cooled kernels a hundred yards wide with a surface gravity of five _[g](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force)_. Human bodies possess a “respectable” gravity field in and of themselves. “Gravitic chemistry” also exists, where gravity is the dominant force on an atomic scale. [The Planiverse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Planiverse) by A. K. Dewdney is about a two dimensional universe. Obviously inspired by _Flatland_ of course, but with a greater attempt make it “realistic” and delve into things like how a two dimensional biology would work. Less social commentary, more alien contact. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/113 "2025-04-21T12:55:43Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Going way back Jules Verne lambasted HG Wells for going to the moon using a magic substance the did away with gravity. But, interestingly, he reportedly wrote an introduction for Robert Cromie’s **A Plunge into Space** , which also featured a sphere with anti-gravity plates to propel it. Cromie’s book preceded Wells’ _First Men in the Moon_ by over a decade. But Verne didn’t read or write English, so there’s some speculation that he wasn’t responsible for the foreword that had his name on it. Some of Verne’s stuff really wasn’t “hard” science, either, like _Master Zacharias_. And, to bring up the Verne-Wells competition again, H. G. Wells’ **The Invisible Man** uses pretty decent optical science to explain how the Invisible Man become invisible\*. Jules Verne apparently wrote **The Secret of Wilhelm Storitz** in imitation of the Wells novel – it’s Verne’s “invisible man” – but he doesn’t even try to give a hard science explanation for the invisibility. In this case, Wells is a better hard SF writer than Verne. - Wells explains it as having Griffin bleach" his tissues of all color and reducing the refractive index to that of his surroundings. Technically, it could work. But there’s no way you could reduce the refractive index down to that of air (1.0003). I could see becoming invisible in water (refractive index 1.33) – lot of marine creatures effectively do this. But not in air. Also, if you’re completely invisible, you’re effectively blind. Wells did know what he was talking about – he had a degree in zoology, was an instructor in biology, and his first published book (even before _The Time Machine_) was a two-volume **Textbook of Zoology** that taught you how to dissect and use the microscope. Index-matching would’ve been very familiar to the young Wells. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076/114 "2025-04-21T14:06:02Z")
Is _The Amateur_ science fiction? Nearly so! (not really spoilers, because there’s no context) They have bugs the size of rice grains that transmit for weeks from inside a secure building and can be listened to halfway around the world. They have facial recognition that is everywhere, all the time, and infallible, Except when a hacker can tap into those same feeds and substitute a different face. You can make a bomb and timer from stuff found in a bar bathroom, in two minutes. They have scanner machines that can pick the metal items hidden in your pocket, in a large open room, but don’t show bones or anything, and don’t kill you from long term exposure. And they make it possible for a slightly built guy to lift and maneuver two large weapons crates full of missiles/bombs by himself! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sf-stories-or-series-where-the-science-was-basically-magic/1017076.md?page=5)