# Shades of Adolph Hitler **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340 "2005-09-25T16:20:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/21 "2005-09-26T04:01:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think you are mistaken about that. The German Communists were fervently opposed to Hitler. Many of the leading anti-fascist voices of the 20s and 30s were Marxists. > > Then Stalin and Hitler signed the non-aggression treaty, and they started practicing their flip-flops. Not really. Hitler used the Reichstag fire (1933) both to come to power and to purge Germany of any effective Communist/Marxist opposition. The Nazi/Soviet Non-Aggression Pact was not signed until August 1939, on the eve of the invasion of Poland. Ironically, it directly led to the gutting of the U.S Communist Party which saw the Pact as a sell-out by Stalin. Following the Pact, ther CPUSA membership fell from a high of almost 75,000 in 1938 to around 11,000. However, by 1934, it was, effectively, illegal to be a Communist in Nazi Germany. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/22 "2005-09-26T04:17:42Z")
> [@Stranger On A Train](#): > > True…but the erosion of civil rights and Constitutional protections has been going on long before Billy Madiso…I mean, George W. Bush, took office. In each Administration it has taken a different form, but it has and will continue regardless of which party holds control of the Presidency and Congress, with occasional reversals and corrections. I guess I can’t be quite so nonchalant about it as to believe that “occasional reversals and corrections” will take place on their own without strong protests from the people being shat upon. > [@](#): > > I don’t like Bush (and if Kerry would have just shown a little backbone and told the “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth” to take their _pravda_ and shove it up their arses I’d have ardently supported him) but it’s disingeneous to compare him to Hitler. I fear that when a real megalomanaic steps up and tries to take the Presidency, you’ll have so worn out the term “fascist” that nobody will really notice or care. There are _plenty of legitimate_ complaints about this President (some of which, if true, are far more impeachable than getting a blowjob in the Oval Office, or even covering it up), but the hystronics don’t do credit to the claims. > > Stranger Good point, but I’m trying to see where I made any reference here to Hitler here. I think **Campion** touched upon an important point about the process by which state control can be instituted. Make things tough enough, as was the case with German inflation or the economic situation of the US in the early 1930’s, and they will go for more and more governmental control. Particularly so if they have become accustomed to a considerable degree of it already. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/23 "2005-09-26T04:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=jrfranchi] > [@](#): > > But why should we care what happens to them? As has been said, what have they ever done for us?{/quote] > > Does that make sense, did anyone suggest we don’t care about the future… That’s a joke, son. A takeoff on the old line about “Posterity? Why should I do anything for posterity? What has posterity ever done for me?” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/24 "2005-09-26T04:36:02Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] > [@jrfranchi](#): > > That’s a joke, son. A takeoff on the old line about “Posterity? Why should I do anything for posterity? What has posterity ever done for me?” Okey dokey. Maybe you could use the 😉 for us slow or easily whooshed. 🙂 I tend to believe that the USA is cyclic more than downhill all the way. It could be said the very liberal times of the 60’s & 70’s which led to a resurgence of the Religious Right is similar to the how the late teens & 20’s led to the horrible experiment of prohibition and greatly increased church attendance. I hope this portion of the cycle ends soon and maybe in 10 years we can have a realistic drug policy instead of a “War on Drugs”. Unfortunately, I don’t believe we will get a lot of our lost liberties back. National Id will happen and I don’t see anyway to derail it. The FBI will continue to get new powers of privacy invasion and this too will be hard too turn back. I just hope we don’t play games with the Presidential Term limits and I still hope our election process will be cleaned up. Otherwise I someday may have to utter the phrase, “Don’t blame me I voted for Kodos” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/25 "2005-09-26T04:39:54Z")
Off to **Great Debates**. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/26 "2005-09-26T04:47:10Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Okey dokey. Maybe you could use the 😉 for us slow or easily whooshed. 🙂 Nah. It’s more fun to spread chaos. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/27 "2005-09-26T05:07:00Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > Off to **Great Debates**. Darn, I hate when that happens, where were we? Could the mods, pretty please include in there move message the \*\*from \*\* as the \*\*to \*\* is obvious? I think we were in GQ. There is very little debating going on, we mostly seem to agree. > [@David Simmons](#): > > Nah. It’s more fun to spread chaos OK, have fun. Just to clarify. Do you see Bush & Cronies as a start towards Nazi style fascism, because I just don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/28 "2005-09-26T05:18:52Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Darn, I hate when that happens, where were we? > Could the mods, pretty please include in there move message the \*\*from \*\* as the \*\*to \*\* is obvious? > I think we were in GQ. Actually, it was MPSIMS. I was kinda surprised to see the thread still there as I read it, but it was moved very shortly thereafter. Actually, I wish it had been moved sooner, so I could have made the brilliant reply I held off on as being inapropriate for MPSIMS before I completely forgot what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/29 "2005-09-26T05:23:36Z")
> [@NadaHappyCamper](#): > > Am I being a paranoid, crazy, nutcase when I say that we in the U.S.of A. are following a pathway of life that Adolph Hitler would support? Please don’t expect “cites,” I can’t provide specific examples. Though I really feel that the leaders of our Nation are adapting many policies that were used by the Nazi’s prior to WW 2. > Example: Wanting to give the Armed Forces the power to enforce the law on U.S. soil. > Are there Americans out there who still beleive, I mean really beleive that the U.S. was actually in danger from Iraq? :dubious: My own personal feeling is the Iraq War is just an instrument of distraction. We have issues here at Home that we should be resolving rather than interfearing in the affairs of other Nations. > That is pretty much all that I have to say now. Yes, President Bush wants to exterminate all the Jews on his way to world domination. Your only chance is to escape now. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/30 "2005-09-26T05:35:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, President Bush wants to exterminate all the Jews on his way to world domination. Your only chance is to escape now. Not Jews, Muslims this time. Can’t you keep your evil dictators straight? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/31 "2005-09-26T05:42:32Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Not Jews, Muslims this time. Can’t you keep your evil dictators straight? 😉 Yes. Yes I can. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/32 "2005-09-26T05:47:31Z")
I think the Bush administration has made an ineffective attempt at fascism. America isn’t built that way, people can’t get behind a movement like that here really. I think the Federal Government has taken a major hit in legitimacy recently with it’s complete ineffectiveness regarding New Orleans. I have been very surprised by what I have seen in the aftermath, from crowds in a public park chanting “Kill George Bush”, to many every day peopel saying they just don’t expect to be able to depend upon the government for anything anymore. A lot of private organizations have been doing the best work on the ground in New Orleans as far as I can tell. It’s been people organizing on their own that has been getting that together. I think the Bush administration is almost like the sitcom version of a fascist regime. Certainly they are still killing people, but no one really takes it seriously, and it’s stumbling more and more each day. I think we’re seeing a rise in corporatization, and Corporate Feudalism is the name of the game at this point. I think The Fed will fall to globalisation with little fanfare. The Federal Reserve is already a corporation with stockholders as it is. Basically, what we have resembles fascism in a lot of ways, but isn’t really fascism. In the past few months I have seen people using Jet Packs and Cell Phone bombs in art exhibits. I’ve seen a mind machine interface that allows one to sequence midi signals using an EEG helmet. I’ve heard that nanotech in Edinburgh can now move a molecule 90 degrees. I mentioned wanting a robotic riding spider casually to one of my friends, and was instantly pointed in the direction of the company that could make it. We are the people and we are the industry, and we rule the country, so it’s sort of fascistic, but not really. America at heart is managed anarchy. Now when people start losing interest in the bad programming coming out of Washington, and the rating drop low enough, the show will be cancelled and we’ll move on. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/33 "2005-09-26T05:56:11Z")
By way of minor correction, I should point out that Bush’s term won’t end until January 2009, which is a little more then _three_ years from now. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/34 "2005-09-26T06:00:22Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > By way of minor correction, I should point out that Bush’s term won’t end until January 2009, which is a little more then _three_ years from now. And a long 3 years it will be. I am hoping for a mid-term move towards a more moderate Congress, even if this means some liberal Dems getting in. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/35 "2005-09-26T06:18:17Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Just to clarify. Do you see Bush & Cronies as a start towards Nazi style fascism, because I just don’t see it. Do you mean do I expect to see extermination camps within the next few years? I don’t even know that the term fascism would apply, depending upon what you mean by that. I will say that GW and those surrounding him seem to believe that the executive should have the dominant place in government; that extreme nationalism is the proper attitude for a people; and that war is a good solutiong to problems. But those things could very well disappear when GW leaves. My concern is that the emphasis on the executive power gives a small group the license to use the police powers of the state to snoop into what people read as just one example, and to claim the power to hold people indefinitely on the mere assertion of the chief executive that the individual is an enemy combatant, terrorist or some other such loaded catch-all. Such things have in part been codified into law and it is difficult to get a case into court to test them. I realize that the executive has been pretty successful in the few cases to date. I also remember that the Supreme Court upheld the internment of US citizens of Japanese descent which everyone now agrees was a bad mistake. My worry is that be the time those in the future, including members of the judiciary, wake up to the erosion of civil liberties it will be much too late. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/36 "2005-09-26T06:24:01Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Do you mean do I expect to see extermination camps within the next few years? …snip… > I realize that the executive has been pretty successful in the few cases to date. I also remember that the Supreme Court upheld the internment of US citizens of Japanese descent which everyone now agrees was a bad mistake. My worry is that be the time those in the future, including members of the judiciary, wake up to the erosion of civil liberties it will be much too late. So more a fear of Big Brother than Neo-Nazism. This is a fear I actually share. I am fearful of the whole Camera’s everywhere, National Id, volentary use of Child RF Id becomming more and more commonplace as they are steadily encouraged. In many ways they will just guide us into a loss of freedom. I already broke down and put an EZ-Pass transponder in my car as it saves so much time, but it allows the goverment some tracking of my movements and I seem to have a knee-jerk dislike of this. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/37 "2005-09-26T06:48:26Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > So more a fear of Big Brother than Neo-Nazism. > This is a fear I actually share. I am fearful of the whole Camera’s everywhere, National Id, volentary use of Child RF Id becomming more and more commonplace as they are steadily encouraged. In many ways they will just guide us into a loss of freedom. > I already broke down and put an EZ-Pass transponder in my car as it saves so much time, but it allows the goverment some tracking of my movements and I seem to have a knee-jerk dislike of this. Yes. Naziism is not the only form of oppressive government. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340/38 "2005-09-26T11:25:09Z")
> [@NadaHappyCamper](#): > > Am I being a paranoid, crazy, nutcase when I say that we in the U.S.of A. are following a pathway of life that Adolph Hitler would support? Not at all. Our programs to get rid of homosexuals, gypsies, jews, and of course anyone black, brown, and red are going along swimingly. With our new hurricane creation machine we’ll be able to evacuate the master race from the coast and leave the inferiors to fend for themselves. > [@](#): > > Please don’t expect “cites,” I can’t provide specific examples. Though I really feel that the leaders of our Nation are adapting many policies that were used by the Nazi’s prior to WW 2. Cites are overrated. I’m sure you can come up with more examples. > [@](#): > > Example: Wanting to give the Armed Forces the power to enforce the law on U.S. soil. Who wants to do this? On another note Eisenhower’s highway initiative during the 1950’s is another govt. program that Hitler probably would have approved of. Seig Ike!!! > [@](#): > > Are there Americans out there who still beleive, I mean really beleive that the U.S. was actually in danger from Iraq? :dubious: My own personal feeling is the Iraq War is just an instrument of distraction. We have issues here at Home that we should be resolving rather than interfearing in the affairs of other Nations. > That is pretty much all that I have to say now. What does this have to do with Hitler? Marc [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shades-of-adolph-hitler/323340.md?page=1)