# Shaggy & Scooby Vs. The Lord Of The Nazgul **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 21, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271 "2003-12-21T04:41:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/21 "2003-12-21T23:31:52Z")
Don’t even get me started on Pantsless Aragorn. I picked up the Bakshi version DVD on sale, too, but it just wasn’t funny. My kid – a major fan of the Jackson LOTR films – was NOT impressed with Pantsless Aragorn, saying he looked like a middle-aged construction worker wearing a Pocahontas wig. And no pants. …and while I kind of agreed with her, his looks didn’t bother me so much as his voice. John Hurt, a fine British actor with about a zillion credits to his name… only two of which include Winston Smith in the '84 version of “1984”, and the doomed astronaut in the first “Alien” film who has a critter burst through his sternum, voiced Aragorn in the Bakshi version. …but John Hurt does not sound like a big bluff Ranger kind of guy. He sounds like a thin, reedy-voiced Englishman. Hearing a thin, reedy-voiced Englishman’s voice coming out of this cartoon guy who looked kind of like a belligerent Tonto just… well, it wasn’t QUITE as bad as hearing Shaggy and Scooby up there quoting Tolkien, but it was jarring, certainly… (My kid’s commentary didn’t stop with Aragorn. Although she’s quite wild about Orlando “Legolas” Bloom, she wasn’t wild about Bakshi’s Legolas, or any of his elves, either. “What’s the deal with the Elf Eyes in this movie?” she asked. “Did they all escape from Area 51, or something? They all have huge eyes. And huge seventies hair.”) ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/22 "2003-12-21T23:35:18Z")
Tracer, thank you for the information. Chris Latta’s name isn’t in the credits, but anyone who sees this video will recognize the Witch King’s voice as the voice of several villains from Scooby Doo and Space Ghost and the Herculoids… …and that voice was as annoying coming out of the Witch King as it was from any number of sixties bad guys. Don Messick, maybe. Hell, as far as I can tell, Messick did the voices of the entire Gondorian army… ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/23 "2003-12-21T23:46:39Z")
Master Wang-Ka: [Here’s](http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm) a very funny “critique” of Bakshi’s version. It also mentions 70’s hair. > [@](#): > > Late '70s Hair. Everybody in this movie has unspeakably big hair. Pounds and pounds and pounds of it. I swear, I keep waiting for Gandalf to fall over under the sheer weight of it. And Saruman… it’s perhaps better not to even talk about Saruman. I mean, he shouldn’t have even been able to stand up. I couldn’t agree more about the Witch King’s voice. It was instantly recognizable as any rubber-masked Scooby Doo villain. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/24 "2003-12-22T00:02:03Z")
Well, I can’t blame them. They’re right. Everyone in the Bakshi version DID have huge seventies hair. Hell, even the hobbits are packin’ around these giant John Travolta disco do’s… and yes, Saruman in particular did kind of look like he was in the process of being eaten and digested by a humungous white wig. Or perhaps a huge white Cousin Itt. ---
**Author:** ![hebesphenomegacorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@hebesphenomegacorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hebesphenomegacorona)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/25 "2003-12-22T01:04:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Master Wang-Ka \* > \*\*I bought it, if only to have a copy of the great Orc marching song, “Where There’s A Whip, There’s A Way.” > > \*\* Odd. That’s the only part of that movie I remembered. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/26 "2003-12-22T05:35:23Z")
Hey, 70s hair rules! Legolas in the Bakshi version (cursed be the name of Bakshi!) was voiced by Anthony “C-3PO” Daniels. Gollum in the Rankin-Bass movies was played by the late “stand-up philosopher” and sometimes Letterman guest, Brother Theodore. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/27 "2003-12-22T05:46:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Rieux \* > **Legolas in the Bakshi version (cursed be the name of Bakshi!)** Fie! 'Twas Bakshi who gave us _Fritz the Cat_! 'Twas Bakshi who gave us the first animated _Spider-Man_! 'Twas Bakshi who gave us such immortal classics as _Wizards_ and _Fire and Ice_ and … uh … aw, you’re right, screw Bakshi. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/28 "2003-12-22T10:49:04Z")
I recommend using revisionist history. Only _Fritz_ exists; Bakshi was consumed in a giant fireball after creating it. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/29 "2003-12-22T11:22:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Master Wang-Ka \* > \*\*…and while I kind of agreed with her, his looks didn’t bother me so much as his voice. John Hurt, a fine British actor with about a zillion credits to his name… only two of which include Winston Smith in the '84 version of “1984”, and the doomed astronaut in the first “Alien” film who has a critter burst through his sternum, voiced Aragorn in the Bakshi version. > \*\* Don’t forget that he played Joseph Merrick, too. “I-AM-NOT…A _HOBBIT!_…I ahm_thhipt_ AWAGOWN, thon of _thhipt_ Awathown!” Sorry, Joe. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/30 "2003-12-22T15:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Fie! 'Twas Bakshi who gave us _Fritz the Cat_! 'Twas Bakshi who gave us the first animated _Spider-Man_! 'Twas Bakshi who gave us such immortal classics as _Wizards_ and _Fire and Ice_ and … uh … aw, you’re right, screw Bakshi. \*\* Nitpick: Bakshi took over SpiderMan after the first season, while not his best work it did have a wierd, creeped-out, gritty 1960’s surealiasm that I was impressed with, considering he spent about 20 bucks to produce each episode and re-cylced alot of footage from **Rocket Robin Hood**. Full disclosure: I liked his **Lord of the Rings**. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/31 "2003-12-22T15:39:23Z")
I did not like Bakshi’s LOTR when I first saw it. I like it even less upon rediscovering it 20 years later. The film has no sense of pacing or timing, and looks cheap. Watching old Spider-Man cartoons produces a similar sensation. Each episode uses a huge amount of recycled footage. Watching three episodes back to back is almost confusing, due to the sheer amount of recycled footage. The link Squeegee posted above is very funny, and makes some very good points… in particular, the abundance of huge gestures. Everyone in this movie appears to be on the verge of hysteria much of the time. This may be appropriate for a cartoon… but for a serious non-children’s film? And while I have tremendous respect for John Hurt, and do not want ANYONE thinkin’ I’m talkin’ bad about this extremely talented man… I sure wouldn’t cast him in any role requiring him to appear on the poster without a shirt, wearing an ammo bandolier, and toting a large automatic weapon. This would not be good casting, unless we’re talkin’ comedy. …and casting him as Aragorn is not good casting. At least, not the way the character is rendered. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/32 "2003-12-22T15:59:42Z")
I think the guy who did the voice of the Witch King was also the voice of (choke) Skeletor. Gad, seeing those links of the cartoon orcs…_must apply sulphuric acid to my eyeballsssss_ ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/33 "2003-12-22T17:46:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tremmie \* > \*\*I don’t know if this is ok or not, but for those of you who really wanna hear the “If there is a whip there is a way song” [Enjoy 🙂](http://www.brotherhood-of-bob.com/wheretheresawhip.mp3) \*\* Ya gotta love that '70’s porno-rhythm-guitar riff in the background! ---
**Author:** ![DeVena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@DeVena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeVena)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/34 "2003-12-22T18:04:02Z")
OK I have to ask… Which version gave us the song “Frodo of the 9 fingers, and the Ring of Dooooooom!” \<\\> ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/35 "2003-12-22T18:59:26Z")
That would be the Rankin-Bass “Return Of The King,” best remembered for the “Whip” song… the one that began this whole thread. ---
**Author:** ![BuckleberryFerry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f9b8f/32.png) [@BuckleberryFerry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BuckleberryFerry)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/36 "2003-12-22T21:32:36Z")
**Master Wang-Ka** , I thought you’d like to know I rented Bakshi’s LOTR from the library today. Will watch ASAP. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/37 "2003-12-23T00:04:53Z")
My condolences. ---
**Author:** ![FisherQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@FisherQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FisherQueen)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/38 "2003-12-23T00:14:49Z")
I remember seeing this when I was very, very young. So young, in fact, that I saw it in an establishment of a kind that no longer exists- a video theater. This was after VCRs were invented, but before most people had them. My family and I went to the video store, chose this movie, then rented a small room with a few couches, a television, and a VCR, and watched it. Even then, even when I had appalling taste and was under the age of ten, I realized that here was a thing that sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Macphisto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b487fb/32.png) [@Ms\_Macphisto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Macphisto)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/39 "2003-12-23T00:17:16Z")
I’m pretty sure we’ve got at least one of the cartoon LOTR movies on tape at my parents’ house. I’m not sure which one, but if I get sufficiently bored over Christmas I may have to finally subject myself to it. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271/40 "2003-12-23T00:24:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Master Wang-Ka \* > \*\*I did not like Bakshi’s LOTR when I first saw it. > > I like it even less upon rediscovering it 20 years later. The film has no sense of pacing or timing, and looks cheap.\*\* Well, of course it has no sense of pacing or timing - it’s adapting the books fairly faithfully. Say what you like about LotR, but when 90% of the journey is accomplished in the first book of a trilogy your pacing is scrwed royally. As to looking cheap, they ran out of money before it was completed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaggy-scooby-vs-the-lord-of-the-nazgul/220271.md?page=3)