# Shagnasty and the Worst Anecdote in SDMB History **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468 "2005-02-17T02:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/261 "2005-02-19T01:04:16Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > For some reason, I feel the need to experiment. Next time I’ll be in a wine bar and next time I’ll be in a fancy restaurant, I’ll order a glass of milk… That is your choice but remember that you have been warned. It is hard to predict what the lasting conseqences are going to be. After you do that, people will never forget and you can never make them see you the way they did before ever again. It could work out well for you but for the vast majority, it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/262 "2005-02-19T01:15:21Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is your choice but remember that you have been warned. It is hard to predict what the lasting conseqences are going to be. After you do that, people will never forget and you can never make them see you the way they did before ever again. It could work out well for you but for the vast majority, it doesn’t. God as my witness, I can’t tell if he’s being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/263 "2005-02-19T01:16:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > God as my witness, I can’t tell if he’s being sarcastic. Don’t force me to channel Foghorn Leghorn. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/264 "2005-02-19T01:17:27Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > That is your choice but remember that you have been warned. It is hard to predict what the lasting conseqences are going to be. After you do that, people will never forget and you can never make them see you the way they did before ever again. It could work out well for you but for the vast majority, it doesn’t. The vast majority? What’s the “vast majority” of one person? You said yourself you only know one story like this, and it worked out for the best for the woman involved. Come on man, fun is fun, but it’s time to admit you’re just having us on. You had me going, but I can’t believe anyone could really be as pretentious a moron as you’re pretending to be. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/265 "2005-02-19T01:20:21Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Hugh Laurie in **House** gets my vote. Not seen that, but he’s pretty cringeworthy in the _Stuart Little_ cutefests. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/266 "2005-02-19T02:23:58Z")
Oh, man. What a _bizarre_ anecdote and subsequent thread. I’ve noshed hors 'doeuvres with a US Senator, dined with the brother of a US President both at my apartment and at his home (an Eisenhower, NOT a Carter or a Bush!), chatted over drinks with a Fortune 500 CEO, handed punch to a Nobel Laureate, had a beer with a Lasker Award winner, and drank soda with an NFL Hall of Fame quarterback. I’ve also broken bread with many a working stiff (like me!), been treated to food by the elderly poor, and have shared my meals with and bought food for the homeless and the dying. And the only operative rule necessary in all those encounters was to be respectful towards your hosts and respectful of your guests. All else is vanity. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/267 "2005-02-19T02:30:41Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I’ve noshed **hors 'doeuvres** with a US Senator, dined with the brother of a US President both at my apartment and at his home (an Eisenhower, NOT a Carter or a Bush!), chatted **over drinks** with a Fortune 500 CEO, handed **punch** to a Nobel Laureate, had a **beer** with a Lasker Award winner, and drank **soda** with an NFL Hall of Fame quarterback. All good experiences. There seems to be something missing in there though but I can’t quite put my finger on it. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/268 "2005-02-19T02:51:38Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Go to the top of the class for paying attention! So which actor would win the award for worst American accent by a non-American? I’d have to nominate Michael Palin in _The Meaning of Life_. I love the guy to death but he can’t do American. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/269 "2005-02-19T02:54:57Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > All good experiences. There seems to be something missing in there though but I can’t quite put my finger on it. We had both wine and milk available when we dined with Dr. Eisenhower. A nice Moselle, along with a choice 1%. Being the Kansas boy he was, the good Dr. enjoyed his dairy products. I believe the Senator eschewed the champagne cocktails for a glass of skim, too. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/270 "2005-02-19T03:59:43Z")
There is no grey area here. In this anecdote, there is one faux pas beyond any argument - namely, to conclude that someone is “an unsophisticated simpleton” because they prefer milk to beer or wine is proof beyond argument that you are a fucking hick. I state this with the full. smug satisfaction of one whose breeding and knowledge of etiquette is beyond reproach, especially by the fuckwitted peons who have made such ridiculous claims as: “Going to a wine bar and ordering milk makes you look like[sic] unsophisticated” “You simply don’t order milk in a 5 star restaurant as an after dinner drink” “milk is an odd thing for an adult to order at a fancy restaurant” “she was childish for ordering something unsuited to the venue and situation she was in” Look, I’m sorry for your peasant upbringing, but for the love of fuck don’t even attempt to claim a knowledge of the acceptable rules of polite society. A non drinker is well within accepted norms to ask for a glass of milk or water. To claim otherwise…fuck me, how pisspoor a state of affairs when the gauche try to dictate good manners. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/271 "2005-02-19T05:06:43Z")
A bar is not a bar is not a bar. I’m not Mr. Sophisticato and in most bars I wouldn’t give a shit what my date were drinking. I also wouldn’t give a shit what she was wearing. But there are bars in my area that require a certain kind of dress and a certain kind of sophistication. When everyone is seated at tables and drinking out of crystal glasses, it looks a little more ridiculous drinking bright white milk than it would at the local watering hole. It sure as hell wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me as far as seeing her again, but alot of you here don’t seem to understand that there is a time and place for everything. Someone ordering milk in a swanky beer and wine bar in Manhattan on a first date and not realizing that this would draw attention to the table might just be a simpleton. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/272 "2005-02-19T05:40:48Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I certainly think that it is not a good idea to suit yourself in the foot with some off the wall uncouth behavior just because the impulse strikes. I can’t figure out if I should laugh or cry if you’re seriously calling wanting a glass of milk “off the wall” and “uncouth” behaviour. > [@Stonebow](#): > > I don’t try to prepare people to dine with the Queen- but I do try to get them to the point where they can attend a function and not freak out a potential client. I don’t know how I could have lived for 35 years and never realised what a _shocking_ drink milk was. Who knew that one little beverage could have such a power over people not even drinking it themselves? I guess my mother didn’t raise me properly because she never informed me of the fact that drinking milk in front of others could “freak” them out. Or that it was uncouth. > [@msmith537](#): > > What do you consider “stepping on eggshells”? Not being loud and obnoxious in the restaurant? Not dressing like a homeless person? Refraining from flinging food at other people? No, but I would consider having to worry about freaking someone out because I ordered a freakin’ glass of milk as “stepping on eggshells”. I would also consider having to worry that I was making some one else uncomfortable socially because I neglected to order a slice of garnish with my beverage as “stepping on eggshells”. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/273 "2005-02-19T06:02:35Z")
> [@Gary Kumquat](#): > > Look, I’m sorry for your peasant upbringing, but for the love of fuck don’t even attempt to claim a knowledge of the acceptable rules of polite society. A non drinker is well within accepted norms to ask for a glass of milk or water. To claim otherwise…fuck me, how pisspoor a state of affairs when the gauche try to dictate good manners. Ooh, _so close_ - and yet so far. Manners are not the playground of the wealthy, nor is true class correllated in any respect to income, as far as I’ve noticed. You’re right that Shagnasty lacks manners, but you, sir, lack class. Nouveaux riches, I’m guessing. That or yer jest a moron. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/274 "2005-02-19T07:32:57Z")
Well I’m getting in on this late. Apologies for keeping it going to those who are waiting for it to die - but I’m loving it. I read through all 3000 indignant posts. And I’d like to offer my own indignation, if that’s ok: 1. \*\*Shag \*\* - how the hell do we KNOW that this was the “screech” moment in the date? It seems to me it has to be either: a) He told you. In which case he’s a childish dolt (not someone who reasonably chose not to see this woman for again because of compatibility issues). b) He told her. Same problem. c) She guessed that was the case. In which case she’s either thinking she can read his mind and there were probably other things going on. Or she’s just plain wrong. Or she’s sophisticated enough to know _exactly_ the score. 2. I’m not “a sophisticate.” Because I don’t feel I have extra space in my brain to devote to the appropriate beverage ordering behavior in bars. (i.e. I don’t give a shit) However I grew up among sophisticates of various stripes and I’ve been around enough very worldly people to say with reasonable condfidence that they would not be offended by this type of behavior in the least. (Unless possibly if they were German - but that’s for a different thread). This would be considered a charming eccentricity. A sign of a good sense of humor or a strong sense of self. 3. There’s only one clear sophisticate in this entire thread - and that’s the Captain in **Roger Thornhill’s** anecdote. 4. > [@stonebow](#): > > and drawing attention to yourself is usually not a good thing in group settings like this. I believe this was a date not a business luncheon. 1. Great rant: > [@Stricker Van Gogh](#): > > Now I, for one, fully expect that this will happen, that the dimwits will judge me in their own dimwitted ways. That’s the natural order of things. What’s driven this thread and the last isn’t just stupidity, though, but also the pigheaded condescension that’s accompanied it. What we have here is one of the finest amalgams of arrogance and idiocy I’ve ever come across. I might just bookmark these pages to have a ready reference of the lengths to which some people will go to feel superior to others. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/275 "2005-02-19T08:24:22Z")
> [@Gary Kumquat](#): > > I state this with the full. [sic, indeed] smug satisfaction of one whose breeding and knowledge of etiquette is beyond reproach Fuck you, you arrogant imperious pretentious ‘aristocrat’. If your ‘breeding’ and ‘knowledge of etiquette’ lead you to be a fucking smug asshole, then you can cram your family tree up your ass sideways. ~wanders back out of the thread~ ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/276 "2005-02-19T12:19:59Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Fuck you, you arrogant imperious pretentious ‘aristocrat’. > If your ‘breeding’ and ‘knowledge of etiquette’ lead you to be a fucking smug asshole, then you can cram your family tree up your ass sideways. > > ~wanders back out of the thread~ Silly child. I wonder how you create the strawman of me claiming aristocrat status? Or are you so stupid that you really think only an aristo can claim good breeding, indeed? Arrogant? Always. Imperious - certainly so. But would I fucking try to claim someone lacks class because they order milk at a restaurant…by god, and you think I’m pretentious. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/277 "2005-02-19T12:23:05Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Manners are not the playground of the wealthy, nor is true class correllated in any respect to income, as far as I’ve noticed. You’re right that Shagnasty lacks manners, but you, sir, lack class. Nouveaux riches, I’m guessing. That or yer jest a moron. Indeed. And just where, exactly, did I mention anything about wealth, income or otherwise? Or, if I may put it another way, learn to read you fucking mook. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/278 "2005-02-19T15:39:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Gary Kumquat** > Indeed. And just where, exactly, did I mention anything about wealth, income or otherwise? Calling other posters peons ring a bell? ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/279 "2005-02-19T15:47:26Z")
Man, I just made it through all 4 pages of this thread and am amazed at the hostility coming from the “pro-milk” crowd. **Lamia** , calm the hell down. No one is _making_ you order a lime with your coke. You’ve beaten that horse to a pulp. Obviously **Shagnasty** is talking about really upscale, swank affairs in which traditional rules of ettiqute, no matter how silly they may seem, are _expected_. These are not the same rules that are expected to be follwed at every bar on every corner. You adjust your behavior accordingly. Do all the rules make sense? No. Do some seem down right silly? You bet. Must they be followed like black letter law? Not unless you’re trying to impress someone important, like **Shagnasty** is often in the position of. If you don’t follow them, might you be judged? Sure. Must you care? Hell no. I worked in politics for awhile, in the wine country to top it off. These rules are _out there_. **Shagnasty** didn’t make them up. I didn’t make them up. But when I was in a position where it mattered, I quickly learned and followed them. I didn’t get all bitter and blame those who expected them to be followed for their very existence. Haven’t we all matured past the age of 5 when asking _why_, making repetitive snide little comments and throwing an absolute hissy when we didn’t agree with something seemed appropriate? If you don’t want to follow the rules, then _don’t_. You’re not going to get kicked out of the bar. Just remember that a person with class will be aware of the expected ettiqute of any venue in which she intends to spend time. A person with class will also “not notice” when someone in their company fails to be aware or follow those expected behaviors. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/280 "2005-02-19T15:52:09Z")
Well, would you look at that. I managed to miss the past 2 pages of this thread and misspell every other word in my post. I’ll just take a black coffee, please. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468.md?page=15)