# Shagnasty and the Worst Anecdote in SDMB History **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468 "2005-02-17T02:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/101 "2005-02-17T17:23:15Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > Perhaps many of the differences in opinion on this subject come from the fact that some consider these ideals of sophistication more superficial than others. If I dress like a slob, does that say something deep and meaningful about my personality? Or does it just mean that I’m too busy with things I consider more interesting to even care? It says you don’t care about your appearance. That’s your choice but don’t get mad if people perceive you as sloppy and treat you accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/102 "2005-02-17T17:26:06Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Bullshit. “Simpleton” is not a synonym for “unsophisticated.” It’s a synonym for “mentally retarded.” First of all, context is your friend. It’s clear that **Shagnasty** meant “unsophisticated.” But if you want to get anal and use dictionary definitions of words, then you’ll notice in Merriem-Webster online does not list either “stupid” or “mentally retarded” as synonyms. > [@](#): > > That’s not just the uncharitable reading, that’s the _only_ reading. Correction: That’s the only reading that proves your point as well as feeds your righteous indignation. If that’s the only way you can read it, then that’s the only way you _want_ to read it. Let’s do a quick review to put things in perspective: She ordered an unconventional drink. He decided not to go on a second date. He did not hit her. He did not spit in her milk. He did not pee on her car. He did not try to get a law passed to prevent dairy products to be consumed in taverns. He did not burn a cross on her lawn. He went through with one date, and decided not to go on a second one. Apparently this makes him worse than Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/103 "2005-02-17T17:32:17Z")
To the defenders of the lady in question: - Do you have any personal standards of what is appropriate and inappropriate? - Do you think that your standards are universally shared? - Are there any factors that would prevent you from pursuing a romantic relationship with someone? I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. Guy wants a lady that can appreciate fine wine or at least wants someone that can enjoy an evening in an establishment that serves liquor. This lady wasn’t her. They don’t go out again. The end. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/104 "2005-02-17T17:33:06Z")
I don’t think it makes him all that bad, tdn, just very sure of what he wants. However, I do think it’s a bit shallow, and a little silly. I think this whole thread is silly. Over milk?! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/105 "2005-02-17T17:34:57Z")
Why is this even a question? If you order milk in a bar you look like a weenie. You can stand on your street corner screaming that all drinks are equal but it’s just not how the world sees it. Why do you think most guys feel the need to add “in a dirty glass” if they order it? And besides maybe he was a militant vegan. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/106 "2005-02-17T17:37:36Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I don’t think it makes him all that bad, tdn, just very sure of what he wants. > > However, I do think it’s a bit shallow, and a little silly. > > I think this whole thread is silly. Over milk?! The milk example is very silly. However, I find your attitude of ‘I’ll do what I want, when i want’ without regard to how it might appear quite selfish. How is the casual observer to understand your motivations and differenciate a personal eccentricty from being totally out of your depth? And if you don’t care how you look, but I do, how well are we going to get along? ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/107 "2005-02-17T17:39:17Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It says you don’t care about your appearance. That’s your choice but don’t get mad if people perceive you as sloppy and treat you accordingly. And like I said, that attitude is just shallow. There are plenty of people who don’t much care about their appearance, but would make great friends. There are also people who care a lot about their appearance that I wouldn’t want to be in the same zip code with (Paris Hilton, anyone?). ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/108 "2005-02-17T17:42:57Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > The milk example is very silly. However, I find your attitude of ‘I’ll do what I want, when i want’ without regard to how it might appear quite selfish. How is the casual observer to understand your motivations and differenciate a personal eccentricty from being totally out of your depth? And if you don’t care how you look, but I do, how well are we going to get along? Hey now don’t lump me in with everyone else. I didn’t say do what you want, whenever you want. Right at this moment I only have a problem with lumping drinking milk in a bar with behaviors like picking your nose in public. As for the rest of it, of course it depends on the situation…but, really? Did drinking milk in a bar embarrass him? Do you not think it’s shallow? You dump me for drinking milk in a bar. Yet I have quite a refined palate, I like fine wines, fine food. I have class, elegance, and sophistication. Yet \*you’ll never know \* any of that since you dumped me for drinking milk in a bar once. I find that silly & immature. And no one knows about the rest of her behavior that night. Was that the only sign of unsophistication? The whole thing seems very juvenile. I would like to be with a guy who can bend the rules a bit sometimes without getting bent out of shape. Thankfully, I am. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/109 "2005-02-17T17:45:57Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > The milk example is very silly. However, I find your attitude of ‘I’ll do what I want, when i want’ How do you equate ordering a drink that a bar carries and is happy to serve you with “I’ll do what I want, when I want?” How can you twist a perfectly reasonable statement into something you might hear from a Wild Teen on Maury Povich? ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/110 "2005-02-17T17:46:58Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > However, I do think it’s a bit shallow, and a little silly. Don’t we all have our silly, shallow things that might make or break a relationship? Like the person who said she couldn’t stand gum chewing - she didn’t say that it wasn’t silly, but she did say that to her, gum chewing is gross enough that she’d have a really hard time being around someone who chewed gum all the time. My ex often had a hard time in formal social occasions. He was constantly doing little things that really embarrassed me. Nothing that was outright rude or obnoxious or anything like that, but things like he didn’t know when or who to tip, or assumed that someone was buying him a drink when it was obvious that it was a buy-your-own situation. Did I divorce him over that? No, but it was one of the things that makes me appreciate the present Mr. Athena a lot more. I never have to worry that he’s going to say something not quite right in front of my boss, or give the bellman a blank look when he’s waiting for a tip, or anything like that. I never made the claim that ordering milk in a bar was anything other than odd. It’s not the end of the world, and it’s not necessarily a relationship breaker. But I do understand why her date may have decided that ordering milk in a bar was enough to tell him that she’s not the type of person he wants to date. A lot of people would consider even going to a bar a deal breaker for a date - nobody’s pitting them. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/111 "2005-02-17T17:50:38Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why is this even a question? If you order milk in a bar you look like a weenie. You can stand on your street corner screaming that all drinks are equal but it’s just not how the world sees it. Why do you think most guys feel the need to add “in a dirty glass” if they order it? “_Super_ Weenie Hut Jr.?!!??!!?” ---
**Author:** ![pasunejen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@pasunejen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pasunejen)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/112 "2005-02-17T17:52:52Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It says you don’t care about your appearance. That’s your choice but don’t get mad if people perceive you as sloppy and treat you accordingly. It’s the “and treat you accordingly” that’s making me scratch my head, over here. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/113 "2005-02-17T17:54:24Z")
A friend of mine’s sister was in town and we were hitting it off and I was going to ask her out, until the conversation turned to the fact that she didn’t like _The Simpsons_. Seriously, I had no choice but to abort. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/114 "2005-02-17T17:58:52Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I can’t even comprehend this attitude…what’s “appropriate”. I don’t see in any way that milk is inappropriate. Dancing on the table might not be. Perhaps she should have dumped the milk on his head; now \*\*that \*\* would be appropriate. I agree with you. I should clarify my post - when I said “ordered something inappropriate to the venue”, I meant “out of place” or “not traditionally associated” with the venue, not “wrong” or “improper”. I should have used clearer langauge. I know your post wasn’t directed at me per se, but it did get me to reexamine the language I used. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/115 "2005-02-17T18:00:57Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I don’t think it makes him all that bad, tdn, just very sure of what he wants. Isn’t that a good thing? I mean, as long as it doesn’t make him inflexible (which he very well might be)? > [@](#): > > However, I do think it’s a bit shallow, and a little silly. As I think we’ve all agreed, we don’t know what other clues he may have been picking up as well. And we don’t know what sorts of values he puts on his own hobbies. Perhaps he is shallow, but maybe there’s more to the story that we don’t know. A few posts back I mentioned a woman who liked to watch the WWF, and couldn’t understand someone watching a documentary. I never called her back. Now maybe that makes me shallow, rejecting someone over her TV choices. But the thing is, such choices were not the exception to an otherwise promising relationship, but rather defined in sharp contrast clues I had been picking up throughout the conversation. It was clear to me from word one of the conversation that I would not be able to stand spending much time with this person. The entire conversation was excruciating. It was the TV part that crystalized and summed up everything I had been feeling previously. And I stand by my decision. > [@](#): > > I think this whole thread is silly. Over milk?! Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/116 "2005-02-17T18:17:08Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > First of all, context is your friend. I’ve got eleven pages of context. Read them and then tell me **Shagnasty** isn’t calling this woman stupid. > [@](#): > > It’s clear that **Shagnasty** meant “unsophisticated.” No, it’s nothing like clear. For starters, he calls her an “unsophisticated simpleton.” If simpleton just means unsophisticated, he’s being a bit redundant, no? > [@](#): > > But if you want to get anal and use dictionary definitions of words, then you’ll notice in Merriem-Webster online does not list either “stupid” or “mentally retarded” as synonyms. It doesn’t? [Entry Word: simpleton Function: noun Text: 1 Synonyms FOOL 4, ament, cretin, ||feeb, half-wit, idiot, imbecile, moron, natural, zany 2 Synonyms DUNCE, dullard, dullhead, dumbbell, ||dummkopf, dummy, idiot, ignoramus, moron, stupid Related Word bungler, ||clot](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/thesaurus?book=Thesaurus&va=simpleton) Are you still going to try to argue that “simpleton” is anything other than an insult and an intimation of reduced intellect? Oh, and guess what word _isn’t_ synonymous with simpleton? Here’s a clue: it starts with “u” and ends with “nsophisticated.” > [@](#): > > Correction: That’s the only reading that proves your point as well as feeds your righteous indignation. If that’s the only way you can read it, then that’s the only way you _want_ to read it. I read it that way because _that’s what the fucking word means._ > [@](#): > > Let’s do a quick review to put things in perspective: > > She ordered an unconventional drink. He decided not to go on a second date. > He did not hit her. > He did not spit in her milk. > He did not pee on her car. > He did not try to get a law passed to prevent dairy products to be consumed in taverns. > He did not burn a cross on her lawn. > He went through with one date, and decided not to go on a second one. Apparently this makes him worse than Hitler. Once again, I’m not pitting the man in the anecdote. I’m pitting the man who told the anecdote. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/117 "2005-02-17T18:30:54Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’ve got eleven pages of context. Read them and then tell me **Shagnasty** isn’t calling this woman stupid. Naw, I could barely make it past 5 posts in that painful thread. So fine, I’ll take your word for it. > [@](#): > > It doesn’t? I stand corrected. > [@](#): > > Are you still going to try to argue that “simpleton” is anything other than an insult and an intimation of reduced intellect? I’ll still argue that, depending on context, and the way I read it here (without having read the other thread), that it could be taken to mean unsophisticated, regardless of what a dictionary says. From the context handed to me, it’s not an unreasonable interpretation. But once again, **Shagnasty** would have to explain what he meant by it. > [@](#): > > Once again, I’m not pitting the man in the anecdote. I’m pitting the man who told the anecdote. OK. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/118 "2005-02-17T18:57:44Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Perhaps this is the simpleton in me, but if I was on a date with a woman that ordered milk, I’d think I was out with Pat Boone. My mind would immediately draw conclusions about what other “dangerous” behaviors she refused to engage in. Premarital oral sex being one of them. And if you had been out on a date with me, my goodness, how wrong you would be. Sample dialogue: **Frank** : What’s your poison? **Me:** Coke please. **Frank** : No, your _poison_. **Me:** Coke’s poisonous. **Frank** : Aw, I was hoping to get you drunk. **Me:** You don’t _have_ to get me drunk, honey. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/119 "2005-02-17T19:52:50Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > To the defenders of the lady in question: > > - Do you have any personal standards of what is appropriate and inappropriate? > - Do you think that your standards are universally shared? > - Are there any factors that would prevent you from pursuing a romantic relationship with someone? Yes, no and yes. > [@](#): > > I guess I don’t see what the big deal is. Guy wants a lady that can appreciate fine wine or at least wants someone that can enjoy an evening in an establishment that serves liquor. This lady wasn’t her. They don’t go out again. The end. Not the end… Paraphrasing **Shagnasty** , it’s “Yhis lady wasn’t her. They don’t go out again. _She’s a simpleton and an unsophisticated dolt_. The end.” The big deal is that her strange choice of beverage identifies her as a “simpleton,” according to **Shagnasty**. It’s just that … an odd choice of beverage. It doesn’t mean that. You asked “Are there any factors that would prevent you from pursuing a romantic relationship with someone?” I said “Yes.” Of course there are. Thing is, I don’t think a woman is a worthless human being because we didn’t click, or we had some fundamental differences. Think of it this way … in the original thread, picky eaters were called “pussies”, “whiners,” “child-like” and a variety of other insulting epithets, just because of their diet. Is a woman I have a date with a “skanky, diseased, slow-witted, closed-minded, child-like bitch who is undeserving of any human companionship from decent people” because she may have a deal-breaking trait? In my opinion, no. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/120 "2005-02-17T19:55:21Z")
EDIT: I said “The big deal is that her strange choice of beverage identifies her as a “simpleton,” according to Shagnasty. It’s just that … an odd choice of beverage. _It doesn’t mean that._” Strike the “It doesn’t mean that” - it was an unfinished thought. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468.md?page=7)