# Shagnasty and the Worst Anecdote in SDMB History **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 17, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468 "2005-02-17T02:49:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/161 "2005-02-18T00:25:23Z")
Finishing schools??? You really are living in the past aren’t you. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/162 "2005-02-18T00:25:37Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Etiquette and social graces ARE NOT ABOUT YOU. They are to make others comfortable and to ease social interactions using a common set of decorum and niceities. There are a lot of throwbacks from the trashiestone era in this thread that are having unusual difficulty with these concepts. What sort of neurotic freak is made uncomfortable by someone drinking a glass of milk? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/163 "2005-02-18T00:27:03Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I for one, am appalled at the quality of graduates that our nation’s finishing schools are turning out these days. Sign up today for Shagnasty’s School of the Social Graces. Motto: “Don’t be a simpleton when we can make you a snob.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/164 "2005-02-18T00:29:10Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Etiquette and social graces ARE NOT ABOUT YOU. I’m not the one condemning people because they picked the “wrong” drink. > [@](#): > > \*They are to make others comfortable and to ease social interactions using a common set of decorum and niceities. There are a lot of throwbacks from the trashiestone era in this thread that are having unusual difficulty with these concepts. \*How does demanding extraneous fruit make other people comfortable? I was brought up to believe that it is _bad manners_ to make a big fuss about my order or to do things that needlessly make the server’s job more difficult. I have no objection to a lemon wedge with my soda, but I certainly am not going to make a special request for one. > [@](#): > > - > > I for one, am appalled at the quality of graduates that our nation’s finishing schools are turning out these days. \*I graduated from a very fine, genteel, private women’s college in the South. I have been in bars and restaurants on three continents. I have never insisted that my soft drink come with a piece of fruit though, and no one has ever batted an eye. I guess I associate with a better class of people than you after all. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/165 "2005-02-18T00:31:53Z")
Would ordering a ginger ale be considered “unsophistocated?” I like milk, but I only like to drink it when I’m eating something very sweet or very rich. So would ginger ale pass your test, **Shagnasty**? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/166 "2005-02-18T00:45:10Z")
Do you really think the OP’s friend dumped the girl because she had a glass of milk in a wine bar? Try and read between the lines a bit and stop being so painfully obtuse. She had probably displayed her lack of sophistication in a myriad other ways and this was a somewhat comical coup de grace. No doubt that **Shag** threw in a little hyperbole for added effect. Lighten the fuck up already. Get some exercise. See a shrink. Get yourself laid by a real person. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/167 "2005-02-18T00:51:24Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So would ginger ale pass your test, **Shagnasty**? :rolleyes: Maybe if you remember the lemon or lime. It’s rude unless there’s lemon or lime on it. All the leading etiquette experts agree! Oh wait, they don’t. In fact, I do not believe that any etiquette authority has ever suggested any such thing. They may say that it is polite to make a lemon wedge available to your guests, but certainly not that a guest or customer must request such a thing. In fact, that “rule” (which fortunately does not seem to exist outside **Shagnasty** ’s mind) would run contrary to the intent of etiquette. **Shagnasty** can say what that is, but he obviously doesn’t understand it – it’s about making other people feel comfortable. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/168 "2005-02-18T01:03:20Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Do you really think the OP’s friend dumped the girl because she had a glass of milk in a wine bar? Try and read between the lines a bit and stop being so painfully obtuse. She had probably displayed her lack of sophistication in a myriad other ways and this was a somewhat comical coup de grace. No doubt that **Shag** threw in a little hyperbole for added effect. Lighten the fuck up already. Get some exercise. See a shrink. Get yourself laid by a real person. Wm. of Ockham would be so proud. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/169 "2005-02-18T01:09:44Z")
[QUOTE] > [@Stonebow](#): > > Ordering milk in a bar is well outside the normal parameters of what is socially acceptable for an adult to order at a bar on a date with another adult. At best, it’s eccentric. I’m going to ask you this again. Sez who? I have about twenty years experience in the bar/restaurant business and I have never heard of such a thing. You teach etiquette do you? Using what text? Can you provide a cite for the inappropriateness of ordering milk in a bar? ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/170 "2005-02-18T01:14:09Z")
I’d like to see a cite as well. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/171 "2005-02-18T01:37:41Z")
> [@Stonebow](#): > > Ordering milk in a bar is well outside the normal parameters of what is socially acceptable for an adult to order at a bar on a date with another adult. At best, it’s eccentric. [QUOTE=Contrapuntal] > [@](#): > > I’m going to ask you this again. Sez who? I have about twenty years experience in the bar/restaurant business and I have never heard of such a thing. You teach etiquette do you? Using what text? Can you provide a cite for the inappropriateness of ordering milk in a bar? No, no - I think you are confused. Obviously **Stonebow** intended to say that ordering _human_ milk is well outside the normal parameters of what is socially acceptable. And I, for one, agree. I think snubbing an adult who insisted on being served human milk is entirely right and proper as it is an obviously excessively burdensome request to make on bar management :). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![FaerieBeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FaerieBeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FaerieBeth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/172 "2005-02-18T01:52:09Z")
I think you are all missing the obvious! Examine the facts: 1. Man takes girl to bar. 2. People drink things at bars that can intoxicate them. 3. The freshness of the milk in bars is highly suspect, possibly soured. 4. Girl orders milk. Clearly this woman is a lizard-like alien. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/173 "2005-02-18T01:55:33Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > … she took a teaching job in the East End of London (of course!), where they all speak like Dick van Dyke in _Mary Poppins_. > > …" Really? I got the impression from other threads on this board that NO ONE has EVER spoken in real life like Dick van Dyke in _Mary Poppins_! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/174 "2005-02-18T02:00:44Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > I really don’t even know how to respond to this. What fucking planet are you from? Motherfucking Earth ! Where we drink wine in our wine bars dammit! Ok…maybe I’m getting a little carried away. It still seems wierd to me. Not dealbreaker wierd but still odd. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/175 "2005-02-18T02:06:02Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > > [@Shayna](#): > > > > > [@Stonebow](#): > > > > > > It’s not a matter of having it both ways. it’s a matter of there being a large swath of middle ground out there that won’t offend anyone or turn anyone off. > > > > Just how in the hell do you know that? This guy was apparently appalled that the woman went to a “wine and beer” bar and proceeded to drink something other than wine or beer, thereby showing her utter crassness. For all we know (and based on what we do know, I’d lay money on), he’d’ve been equally as offended/turned off if she’d’ve ordered coffee or club soda. You can’t begin to know what this guy, or any other guy for that matter, would or would not find offensive > > True. We can’t know. And yet that little fact has not prevented a bunch of posters from declaring him to be a snob, a wino, and “apparently appalled.” You apparently aren’t following the chain of conversation here. We absolutely know that this guy was turned off by the woman for not having ordered wine or beer at a wine and beer bar **because Shagnasty said so right in the original story that spawned this entire thread**. What we don’t know, and what I challenged **Stonebow** on, is whether he would’ve been less turned off by her having ordered coffee or club soda as opposed to milk, thereby making his allegation that there is an appropriate “middle ground” that would’ve been considered inoffensive, inaccurate at best and idiotic at worst. Here, I’ll repost the relevant part of the story for you, with the important parts highlighted… > [@Shagnasty](#): > > He asked Suzie out and **she gladly accepted**. They went to a swanky Beer and Wine bar and (sic) Manhattan and **were hitting it off pretty well** [my aside: sounds to me like she wasn’t otherwise showing herself to be unsophisticated or lowbrow to that point in the date]. The waiter came over and asked for drink orders. John ordered and (sic) **expensive** glass of wine. Suzie looked up and said “Oh, **I don’t really care for beer or wine**. I think that I will just have a glass of milk.” > > **Scrrrreeeechhhh!** They finished the date but blew her chance **because she showed herself as an unsophisticated simpleton** (which she is). > > The moral to that story is that you have the right to eat and drink whatever you want but don’t be surprised when **people judge you negatively for your simpleton ways**. Get it? He dumped her _because_ she didn’t order beer or wine. Period. There were no other concerns up to then. And further, there is no evidence he wouldn’t have been exactly as appalled if her choice had been club soda with a twist. > [@tdn](#): > > I understand people’s rush to defend a woman’s right to drink milk, but these same people are quick to condemn a man they’ve never met, apparently convinced that he was under some sort of legal or moral obligation to form a permanent relationship with this woman. Reading for comprehension isn’t your strong suit, is it? Nobody, least of all me, is condemning the man for not wanting to pursue a relationship with this woman. In fact, many (if not all) of us have either admitted that they were clearly not right for each other, that she was better off without someone who would judge her based on that alone, that sometimes attraction (or lack thereof) is random and unexplainable, or that that’s not even the fucking POINT of this thread. Again, for the brain cell impaired: Either it’s rude and childish for a “picky eater/drinker” to impose their idiosynchrasies on others, causing them to have to miss out on cool/fancy/swank dining and drinking establishments, or it’s childish and unsophisticated to “gladly accept” an invitation without restrictions and politely order to your own liking without inhibiting your host in the slightest. You. Cannot. Have. It. Both. Ways. Ergo, **Shagnasty’s** Worst Analogy Ever. And no one will ever convince me that the “flow” of the evening was somehow “ruined” by her ordering a non-alcoholic drink, even if it was milk, at a wine and beer bar. That’s just utterly absurd. So let me do my own version of your summary of what we know so far: Suzie made an unusual but perfectly legal choice in libation. Mr. Bigbux concluded that someone who made such a choice was not his type. **Absolutely NO** other factors may or may not have contributed to his decision, **seeing as how “they were hitting it off pretty well” up to that point, yet immediatly upon her ordering… “Scrrrreeeechhhh!”**. Suzie, whom we all agree would have been better off in a different relationship, is, in fact, in a different relationship, **much to her obvious benefit**. **Shagnasty** appears to be an “unsophisticated” “simpleton” unable to relate an appropriate analogy to try to make his point. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/176 "2005-02-18T02:17:40Z")
Man and woman go to bar – do not wed! What an amazing story. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/177 "2005-02-18T02:23:34Z")
BTW, did she order chicken nuggets and Mac & Cheese for dinner? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/178 "2005-02-18T02:24:44Z")
More importantly, man and woman go to bar, do not fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/179 "2005-02-18T02:43:56Z")
I wonder how the anti-milk-in-a-bar crowd would feel about the obverse scenario: someone who wanted alcohol when none was available. A while back, someone posted an anecdote about a guy they knew or were related to who wanted a strawberry margarita in an Indian restaurant. He presented his case to the waiter: “I know you have a blender because you had to puree the dahl. And I know you have ice, and I know you have strawberries.” When someone quietly pointed out that what the restaurant didn’t have was tequila, he responded, “Well, can’t someone go to the liquor store and get some?” **That** is a simpleton. Not to mention a boor. However, I’ll say this before anyone thinks I’m bolstering **Shagnasty** ’s testimony. If you’re in a bar or restaurant, and you order something that’s **available** , then who gives a fuck? Mr. Gotbux wasn’t the one who had to scare up some milk, so how did it affect him? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Shagnasty** _ > Etiquette and social graces ARE NOT ABOUT YOU. They are to make others comfortable and to ease social interactions using a common set of decorum and niceities. There are a lot of throwbacks from the trashiestone era in this thread that are having unusual difficulty with these concepts. One of the signs of alcoholism (early stages) is wanting everyone around you to drink as well. Of course, when you get to the late stages, you do a lot of drinking alone. But meanwhile, if you’re uncomfortable drinking with someone who’s having a non-alcoholic beverage, that IS ABOUT YOU. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **tdn** _ > A few posts back I mentioned a woman who liked to watch the WWF, and couldn’t understand someone watching a documentary. I never called her back. Now maybe that makes me shallow, rejecting someone over her TV choices. But the thing is, such choices were not the exception to an otherwise promising relationship, but rather defined in sharp contrast clues I had been picking up throughout the conversation. It was clear to me from word one of the conversation that I would not be able to stand spending much time with this person. The entire conversation was excruciating. It was the TV part that crystalized and summed up everything I had been feeling previously. Well, I assumed that the reason you didn’t pursue her was because she made a disparaging remark about your viewing choices. Unless you neglected to tell us, you kept your opinion of her viewing choices to yourself. So it wasn’t her choices, it was her attitude. (And now I’m hearing Max Von Sydow in _Hannah and Her Sisters_: “Can you imagine the level of the mind that watches wrestling?” That clip was part of a montage that started off the documentary _Beyond the Mat_. Hey, a docu about wrestling! Wonder if she’d ever give that a shot?) ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468/180 "2005-02-18T02:52:49Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I’m going to ask you this again. Sez who? I have about twenty years experience in the bar/restaurant business and I have never heard of such a thing. You teach etiquette do you? Using what text? Can you provide a cite for the inappropriateness of ordering milk in a bar? And for the necessity of ordering a lemon or lime with your soft drinks. I’d really like to see that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shagnasty-and-the-worst-anecdote-in-sdmb-history/290468.md?page=10)