# Shake a stick at? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686 "2012-04-23T14:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dresdenres](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a587f6/32.png) [@dresdenres](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dresdenres)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686/1 "2012-04-23T14:10:20Z")
Hello Folks, does any one know the derivation of the phrase “shake a stick at”? As in “There were more (something or others) than you can shake a stick at!”. Tnx, – Mark ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686/2 "2012-04-23T15:08:47Z")
Short answer: [Nobody knows](http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sha2.htm). > [@](#): > > Its recorded history began — at least, so far as the Oxford English Dictionary knows — in the issue of the Lancaster Journal of Pennsylvania dated 5 August 1818: “We have in Lancaster as many Taverns as you can shake a stick at”. … > > Where it comes from can only be conjecture. One possibility that has been put forward is that it derives from the counting of farm animals, which one might do by pointing one’s stick at each in turn. So having more than one can shake one’s stick at, or tally, would imply a great number. This doesn’t fit the early examples, though, which don’t have any idea of counting about them. Another idea is that it comes from battle, in which one might shake a stick at one’s vanquished enemy. This could possibly have led into the early usages. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686/3 "2012-04-24T15:11:52Z")
It doesn’t really explain the other use that I am familiar with, “(its) nothing to shake a stick at”, which seems to be used not only to describe something of little value but also something of considerable value or significance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686/4 "2012-04-24T16:12:11Z")
I have noticed that it’s not clear whether you shake a stick at worthless or valuable things. The use that I’m most familiar with is “Not worth shaking a stick at”, obviously indicating value in things you do shake sticks at. But the usage “Nothing to shake a stick at” seems to be applied to both valuable and worthless things. Maybe because people don’t shake sticks at things much these days and don’t really know what it’s intended to mean. As a child I though the idea of shaking a stick at something was to scare it away. That didn’t really fit the context of the way it’s used though. I’d assume from the prior cite that you shake sticks at things that are worth counting. That would indicate it refers to a group of things each having individual value. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686/5 "2012-04-24T16:30:58Z")
I always thought it was just a silly exaggerated phrase. You can shake a stick at the Grand Canyon, the People’s Liberation Army, Donald Trump’s ego or any other supermassive thing. To say there’s _more_ of that thing than you can actually shake a stick it is saying it’s very, _very_ big or numerous indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686/6 "2012-04-24T16:37:24Z")
There’s more people swinging a dead cat than you can shake a stick at around here without hitting a Starbucks! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shake-a-stick-at/619686/7 "2012-04-24T17:38:41Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > It doesn’t really explain the other use that I am familiar with, “(its) nothing to shake a stick at”… > [@TriPolar](#): > > The use that I’m most familiar with is “Not worth shaking a stick at”… Interesting. To me this sounds like a mixed metaphor. ‘Nothing to write home about’ is not worth mentioning; ‘More than you can shake a stick at’ is a plethora of the things. I’ve never heard the phrasing or usage described above. [Aside: When we were about 20, my friend and I were friends with a guy who must’ve been 40. My friend and I would put on an accent and say, ‘Yep. Thar’s more’n y’can shake a stick at.’ The older guy, wanting to fit in, would try to say it as well. Only he’d say ‘More than you can shake a snake at.’ Remember, we were young; so we’d also put on a brogue and say, ‘Aye, she be a brazen wench!’, rolling the Rs. The older guy could only manage ‘Aye, she be a _blazen wrench!_’ But being a super-8 filmmaker, he was a good resource for a couple of young filmmakers.]