# Shakespeare Mafia-- Act I **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 12, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789 "2025-07-12T15:19:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/141 "2025-07-14T23:59:06Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I don’t think they are contradictory. It matters, but I’ve never had a lot of success in being too confident in my D1 vote. See where I am coming from though, right? Only two bullet points and they seem somewhat at odds. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/142 "2025-07-15T00:36:10Z")
I’m not particularly interested in whether or not there is a vig, I’m reading comments about roles and trying to get a feel for the shape of the game. I think this game is too small to have a vig, in fact since it’s small I think the likelihood of strong powers are lowish. I wasn’t thinking about tracker and watcher but when rereading, they seem likely because they’re not super strong, and match the color. And I like the idea of lovers but I’m not sure that could be pulled off in a game this size. SunUp’s post about the numbers was a lot to read to end in a joke (though I did find it funny), but there’s a point in there, I think, which is that wanting exactly 13 players is unusual mathematically. I do think it’s a clue to the setup. @glee, thank you for the response. I feel you and I’m glad you’ve joined our ranks. I don’t find it odd that you claimed vanilla, but I do find it odd that no one jumped on you for it. (That’s not your fault, but it’s something that people often get jumped on for.) ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/143 "2025-07-15T00:55:14Z")
I think many people consider 13 (or 17) the ideal number for a balanced Mafia game. The game will last a maximum of six Days, and town has to guess right exactly 50% of the time to win. (Assuming no killing or protective power roles) ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/144 "2025-07-15T00:56:04Z")
That’s assuming there are 10 town and 3 scum, of course. I’d be very surprised if it was any other ratio. But whatever, we just need to keep finding and killing them until the game ends. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/145 "2025-07-15T01:12:09Z")
Well, we’ve had a day at least to hear each other out. Right now I’m good with Prof P, Glee, Thing.Fish, PardelLux, Storyteller, and SunUp. By I’m good with, I mean I get Town vibes from them. That doesn’t mean I get Scum vibes from everyone else, it means I haven’t yet seen anything from the rest of you that is above neutral. I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere if we don’t start voting, so I’m going to vote everyone else on the list in order to try out the approval voting. And I’ll unvote you when you change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/146 "2025-07-15T01:15:26Z")
**vote Mahaloth** **vote Biotop** \*_vote DemonTree_ **vote LH75** **vote Bicycle\_Bill** **vote DizzyMrsLizzy** ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/147 "2025-07-15T01:16:35Z")
Sorry, **vote DemonTree.** For Storyteller and anyone else who is keeping a record, I can’t rank these in term of suspicion right now because I’m not particularly suspicious of any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/148 "2025-07-15T01:31:13Z")
Mahaloth 1 (Prof.Pepperwinkle 2-9, AngeloftheNorth 146) Biotop 1 (AngeloftheNorth 146) DemonTree 1 (AngeloftheNorth 146) LH75 1 (AngeloftheNorth 146) Bicycle\_Bill 1 (AngeloftheNorth 146) DizzyMrsLizzy 1 (AngeloftheNorth 146) ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/149 "2025-07-15T01:40:53Z")
Looking at the dialogue between Biotop and Mahaloth, I think that if one of them is Scum, they both are. Mahaloth makes a fairly typical couple of points about D1. Biotop gives him a light tap and asks for further explanation. Mahaloth shrugs it off. Biotop gives an even lighter rejoinder. It’s not inherently suspicious, but there are 2 people I am always very wary of, because I can never tell if they are Scum or not, and Biotop is one. The other, of course, is her royal majesty, the Queen of Scum: **vote AngeloftheNorth**. for casting the first series of serious votes. ---
**Author:** ![Dizzymrslizzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Dizzymrslizzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dizzymrslizzy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/150 "2025-07-15T02:16:29Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > ronos about vote all and unvote all. Why would you want to vote all? To start in suspicion of everyone and then eliminate as you start to trust people? > > Unvote all I assume could be used more often, like if you had two or three votes down and came back after dozens of new posts that changed your mind. But I’m wondering what utility you see in voting all. I find the Vote All to be an obnoxious habit. One that I find scummy at best, because you aren’t leaning anywhere, and spreading your vote so thin it makes you indecisive. Pefect place for scum to hide out in. ---
**Author:** ![Dizzymrslizzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Dizzymrslizzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dizzymrslizzy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/151 "2025-07-15T02:17:29Z")
Who are you :P? My memory is terrible! LOL ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/152 "2025-07-15T02:38:55Z")
Hi Lizzy, nice to see you! I’m Archangel, that name was taken here. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/153 "2025-07-15T02:40:41Z")
Are you voting me because I’m the scum queen or because of the vote? Just want to clarify. You said because of the vote but someone had to start voting or we’ll be here discussing color and mechanics until Nightfall. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/154 "2025-07-15T04:01:25Z")
I usually think that casting the first “serious” vote is a sign of towniness, ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/155 "2025-07-15T04:08:30Z")
Angel, what do you think of Prof’s read on Biotop/Mahaloth? ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/156 "2025-07-15T04:59:30Z")
I think Prof is meta-gaming based on paranoia. Mahaloth’s post about Day One appears to be friendly and intended to help the newbies. It seems to me something that he would do as Town or Scum. Biotop questions it, which is a thing he does often, and as you note, Mahaloth shrugs it off, which is also a thing he does often. I don’t see this exchange as strong enough to be an attempt at scum theater. It would have no utility unless they were just laying down a very mild encounter in case they needed to bus\* later. But the game is so early on that I can’t see they would feel an urgency to bus. - New players: bus is short for throwing your teammate under the bus, it’s something scum do to distance themselves from a teammate who’s in trouble, and it’s a useful tactic because if one scum survives to the end, the whole scum team wins regardless of if they’re alive or dead. @Thing_Fish, do you see any signs of players looking like they might be aligned? I do not. ---
**Author:** ![AngeloftheNorth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelofthenorth/32/19559_2.png) [@AngeloftheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngeloftheNorth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/157 "2025-07-15T05:02:26Z")
Also, it makes me _just slightly_ more suspicious of Prof. P. It does seem like the kind of thing Town Prof would say, but after a couple of championship games I’ve become aware that “If X is scum then Y is scum” can be a useful way of shaping the narrative in scum’s favor. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/158 "2025-07-15T05:49:34Z")
Thus far, no, I don’t see any players looking particularly aligned with each other. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/159 "2025-07-15T11:50:58Z")
It is hard to make decisions in a game where there is no META to draw upon. With thirteen players I think we are looking for three Scum. I am glad to see that AngeloftheNorth has broken the ice and now the game is afoot. I have never played a game where multiple votes were allowed so it will be interesting to see how it plays out I have no candidates for the Scum team but AotN has made a good Town move. So here is reads list 1: Biotop UNKNOWN Mahaloth UNKNOWN DemonTree UNKNOWN Pardel-Lux UNKNOWN Thing.Fish UNKNOWN LH75 TOWN SunUp UNKNOWN glee UNKNOWN BicycleBill UNKNOWN Dizzymrslizzy UNKNOWN AngeloftheNorth TOWN Prof.Pepperwinkle UNKNOWN storyteller UNKNOWN ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2025, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789/160 "2025-07-15T12:39:45Z")
> [@AngeloftheNorth](#): > > Are you voting me because I’m the scum queen or because of the vote? Just want to clarify. You said because of the vote but someone had to start voting or we’ll be here discussing color and mechanics until Nightfall. 🙂 I am voting for you because of Paranoia. I know I can’t tell if you are or if you aren’t Scum, and my default mechanism is to vote you (and Biotop) early and often, and at any sign of perceived Scummitude. So, your being the first to vote, to vote for so many, and no detailed explanations for the votes, kicked my vote into place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shakespeare-mafia-act-i/1020789.md?page=9)