# Shallow Hal (spoliers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 11, 2001, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723 "2001-11-11T02:49:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/1 "2001-11-11T02:49:14Z")
Okay, so Hal gets the power to see every person’s inner beauty, **without** having to invest the time and emotional risk of getting to know that person – and this is supposed to be a **curse?!** (Well, it **was** administered by Tony Robbins, but still.) Do you have any idea how much I’d like to have that power myself? I could just look at a roomful of people and **instantly** know which ones would make good friends, and more importantly, which one would make the best mate. I would never have to worry about winding up with an icky date again. My chances of finding someone who was interested in **me** would probably go way up, too. (Of course, I’d want to have some kind of switch I could flip to turn this power on and off – I don’t want to look at a photograph or a mirror reflection of someone I’ve been dating for three weeks and have to ask somebody else, “Who is **this** a picture of?”.) Oh – and at the end, was that really just Gwyneth Paltrow in a “fat woman suit”? I wanted to see the real actress who played her body-double, not Gwyneth with a fake extra chin. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/2 "2001-11-11T03:12:09Z")
The premise fascinates me, too. I keep wondering why Hal’s best friend doesn’t appear even uglier to him, or what Hal sees in a mirror, or how many ugly, ugly people he sees out in the wide world. Of course you never would be able to see the real person. 'Cause there are people married to serial child molesters who never even guess it. I also have to wonder what I would look like, if my insides showed on the outside. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@The\_Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tim)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/3 "2001-11-11T03:29:56Z")
Gwyneth played the fat version throught out. At least that’s what the stuff about the film I’ve seen has been saying. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/4 "2001-11-11T03:30:58Z")
**tracer** : Well, that’s precisely why Tony Robbins would never put a curse on _you_. **bluethree** : Probably all red and drippy. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Defense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Civil\_Defense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Defense)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/5 "2001-11-11T03:33:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I keep wondering why Hal’s best friend doesn’t appear even uglier to him Jesus, he’s already played by Jason Alexander. How much uglier can anyone get? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/6 "2001-11-11T03:50:37Z")
I was reading that Carnie Wilson went to see it-apparently she was mislead to believe it would actually BE a good movie about beauty being skin deep. Instead, she said she cried throughout the whole thing-she was so hurt by the remarks of the movie. Even if she was incredibly naive for going to see it, ugh. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/7 "2001-11-11T04:47:17Z")
Civil Defense wrote: > [@](#): > > Jesus, he’s already played by Jason Alexander. How much uglier can anyone get? Ooh, ka-_ching!_ Score one for that! P.S. – did anybody else think that Tony Robbins’s description of how this power was supposed to work was a bit … hokey? I believe the conversation went something like this: GEORGE CASTANZA: “But how can he see people’s inner beauty if he’s never met them before?” TONY ROBBINS: “Easy. I just wave my magic romantic-comedy wand over his eyes and _poof_, it’s done!” GEORGE CASTANZA: “But when he’s doing the Horizontal Lambada with her, wouldn’t he **feel** that she was–” TONY ROBBINS: “The brain sees what the heart feels.” So, the heart has some kind of long-range sensors, like on the Starship Enterprise, that can detect inner beauty without getting to know someone first?! P.P.S. – who is Carnie Wilson? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/838e76/32.png) [@The\_Mick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mick)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/8 "2001-11-11T05:56:29Z")
The Mick’s E-Z Way to see a person’s real self: 1.) Look intended person straight in the eyes. You’ll know if they’re a good person or not. P.S. This works super-duper well to see if someone’s lying or trying to hide something as they will refrain from eye contact so as to not give themselves away. Seriously, the eyes tell a much truer story than the vocal chords do. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/9 "2001-11-11T07:48:15Z")
Tracer: It was intended to be a gift, not a curse. Guin: Some of us think that it is a good movie, including Roger Ebert, who is a bit on the large side himself. I thought it was pretty clear the message _was_ that true beauty is inner beauty. What did you see that indicated otherwise? When Hal’s hypnosis is lifted and he sees their true physical appearance, he is just as nice to them as he was before. When he sees Rosemary for the first time as she truly is, he think’s she’s beautiful–he is so much in love with her that he cannot see her any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/10 "2001-11-11T07:49:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*P.P.S. – who is Carnie Wilson? \*\* You remember Wilson Phillips? [http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3424/WP.htm](http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3424/WP.htm) She’s the one on the right. I think she’s also the daughter of one of the Beach Boys. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/11 "2001-11-11T08:13:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Number Six \* > \*\*Tracer: It was intended to be a gift, not a curse. > > Guin: Some of us think that it is a good movie, including Roger Ebert, who is a bit on the large side himself. I thought it was pretty clear the message _was_ that true beauty is inner beauty. What did you see that indicated otherwise? When Hal’s hypnosis is lifted and he sees their true physical appearance, he is just as nice to them as he was before. When he sees Rosemary for the first time as she truly is, he think’s she’s beautiful–he is so much in love with her that he cannot see her any other way. \*\* This has got to be one of the more condemned movies before it was released since “The Last Temptation of Christ” or something. Sure, we can have movies with graphic violence and mind numbingly stupid plots but heaven forbid they make fun of fat people. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Sapphire\_Bullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Sapphire\_Bullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapphire_Bullet)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/12 "2001-11-11T11:17:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Tim \* > \*\*Gwyneth played the fat version throught out. At least that’s what the stuff about the film I’ve seen has been saying. \*\* Actually there was a body double for some of the scenes. I think she was about 300 pounds and the had to add some padding around her chest and stomach. And Carnie Wilson _is_ the daughter of Beach Boy Brian Wilson. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/13 "2001-11-11T11:38:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > Sure, we can have movies with graphic violence and mind numbingly stupid plots but heaven forbid they make fun of fat people. You wanna replace “fat people” with almost any other group of people? Like, “Polish people”, “black people”, “janitors”, “Catholics”, “Texans”, and on and on? And see how that flies with a certain percentage of the population? When people suspect that a movie is making fun of their group, some of them will get pissed. Maybe some groups get more pissed than other groups - it all depends. If you are a member of a group that gets shit on a lot, (and undeniably, fat people _are_ targeted a lot) your tolerance level gets pretty low. Having said that, I’ve not seen the film. I’d like to hope that it actually has some redeeming value. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/14 "2001-11-11T11:43:56Z")
> [@](#): > > You wanna replace “fat people” with almost any other group of people? Like, “Polish people”, “black people”, “janitors”, “Catholics”, “Texans”, and on and on? And see how that flies with a certain percentage of the population? To be fair, movies that make those jokes _do_ exist. _Shallow Hal_ is just another in a long list of “fat jokes” movies. I’m just not going to go see it. I’ll wait for _Fellowship_ instead. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/15 "2001-11-11T11:52:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > > To be fair, movies that make those jokes _do_ exist. Sure they do, and sometimes, people complain about them. I can think of some films that offended the Catholic church a lot, and so they protested, and picketed, and what not. Quite a few films have offended gay people, and so on. Having a group of people getting offended by the content of a film (and protesting it) is nothing new either. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/16 "2001-11-11T16:19:44Z")
Osiris wrote: > [@](#): > > [http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3424/WP.htm](http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/3424/WP.htm) > [Carnie Wilson is] the one on the right. **Now** I see what Carnie Wilson’s trouble is! She’s got that whole ski-jump Marlo Thomas thing going with the bottom of her hair. If she’d straigten the ends of her hair out so that it pointed **downward** , she’d be gorgeous! ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/17 "2001-11-11T16:25:25Z")
Number Six wrote: > [@](#): > > Tracer: It was intended to be a gift, not a curse. Maybe Tony Robbins presented it as such, but the main feel of the movie until the end – not to mention the implications of the advertisements for the movie – gave the impression that this was something “bad” for the shallow guy to have, as it was going to cause all sorts of trouble for him. (And, well, it did – but only because he didn’t recognize anybody after the spell was lifted.) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/18 "2001-11-11T16:41:29Z")
I haven’t seen the movie, so i may be talking out my arse here. Correct me if i’m wrong. It seems to me from the previews to be a very problematic way of dealing with the issue. From what i understand from the previews, the premise is that seeing someone’s inner beauty means seeing them as _physically_ beautiful in a standard Hollywood way (slim, blonde etc.). If this is not the case, why have Gwyneth Paltrow in the film at all? Why not just make it a movie about a guy going out with a big woman whom he happens to think is a really great person? The fact that he sees a different body is not the same as seeing her intelligence, personality, etc. I think i’m going to give it a miss. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/19 "2001-11-11T17:45:29Z")
mhendo wrote: > [@](#): > > From what i understand from the previews, the premise is that seeing someone’s inner beauty means seeing them as _physically_ beautiful in a standard Hollywood way (slim, blonde etc.). Well, just for the record, the “real” (overweight) Rosemary in the movie is supposed to be blonde too. But not slim. There was a _slight_ implication that Hal was merely seeing **his** shallow impression of what the “perfect woman” would look like. (He described his Perfect Woman to Tony Robbins while they were stuck in the elevator together, and **then** Tony Robbins cast his spell on him.) If I had the ability to see people’s “inner beauty”, and it made them look the way they did in the movie, I’d always have to keep reminding myself that a woman that “looks” like a Hollywood star is the one I should be interested in, **not** a woman who “looks” like someone I’d actually be attracted to. (I prefer a gal with a little meat on her bones. Callista Flockhart – or, for that matter, Gwyneth Paltrow – looks like you could accidentally snap her in half.) ---
**Author:** ![slackergirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b38774/32.png) [@slackergirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slackergirl)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2001, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723/20 "2001-11-11T21:59:31Z")
Haven’t seen it, and won’t pay to for the reason mhendo said. The implication in the trailer is that clearly, she cannot be attractive at first glance the way she is. The point seems to be that you have to get to know us fat folks to really love us. It doesn’t really matter that he finds her attractive later - the premise itself is offensive. I saw an interview with GP last week and she said that in any shot where you don’t see her face it is a double (22 year old named Ivy something). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shallow-hal-spoliers/92723.md?page=2)