# Shame on those that refuse the vaccine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870 "2021-07-20T01:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/201 "2021-07-23T07:52:41Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Being anti-vax and cheering for anti-vaxxers is bad, yes. Of course, anyone supporting that viewpoint by openly rooting for vaccinated people to die horribly because they’re probably Democrats would be summarily banned. But… vaccinated people don’t usually die? Which is Good. But not everyone can get vaccinated. Which political side thinks those folks should just die quietly? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/202 "2021-07-23T09:13:32Z")
I’ve finally been able to get some hard data on central venous thrombosis, which seems to be the main concern of many of those who do not want the vaccine. Here are the actual statistics. Risk of CVT after getting an mRNA vaccine-between 2-4 cases/million Risk of CVT after getting AZ or J&J vaccine-between 6-7 cases/million Risk of CVT after getting Covid-about 39/million. If you look at the US, where about 10% of the population has had Covid, your risk if unvaccinated of getting Covid and then having a CVT is 10% 0f 39/million, or approximately 4 cases/million. Comparing that to the risk of CVT after an mRNA vaccine shows that the risks are between 1-2x higher for those that are not vaccinated. Don’t want a potentially fatal central venous thrombosis? Your odds are actually less if you get vaccinated than if you take your chances. (The risks of CVT with Covid are taken from a British study that looked at 500,000 people with Covid and found 20 cases-granted, the numbers are low overall but it’s still a stupid reason not to get the vaccine). ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/203 "2021-07-23T11:30:11Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > But not everyone can get vaccinated. > > Which political side thinks those folks should just die quietly? This thread is neither directed at people for whom the vaccine is not available (yet, or at all), nor at people who cannot take the vaccine for some real medical or other legitimate reason. It is directed at (as stated clearly in the OP [Original Post]). : > [@StraightTalk](#): > > For all those who are able to get the vaccine and refuse to do so… Note that this point is also made in the **thread title**. Hope that clarifies it for you. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/204 "2021-07-23T12:57:50Z")
Watched a CNN “human interest story” this morning with a guy who looked to be in his 40’s, sitting in a hospital bed recovering from a bout of pneumonia due to contracting COVID because he refused to be vaccinated. When asked by a reporter if he’d get vaccinated now or having gone through what he went through, he responded that “No, I would not!”. When asked why, he said it was because, “They’re pushing the vaccine down people’s throats!”. This is what we’re dealing with; A belligerent and pernicious kind of ignorance that refuses to be enlightened. Governor Ivey of Alabama finally said what needed saying: “It’s time to start blaming those who are unvaccinated”: > **[‘It’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated’: Gov. Ivey on rise in COVID-19...](https://whnt.com/news/its-time-to-start-blaming-the-unvaccinated-gov-ivey-on-rise-in-covid-19-cases-low-vaccination-rate/)** > > BIRMINGHAM, Ala. (WIAT) — On Thursday, Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey addressed concerns about the recent rise in COVID-19 cases in the state and its low vaccination rate. In the last two weeks, the state h… ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/205 "2021-07-23T13:26:37Z")
> [@solost](#): > > If anyone has advice for me on how I can convince her please share, because unlike the OP I’d like to keep her around for awhile! [TL;DR: Would your wife consider any experimental cancer treatments if she was dying and nothing else had worked? This is a similar situation but for an entire society instead of one individual.] Ordinarily I’m not a super-big fan of using pharmaceuticals, vaccines, medical devices or procedures that haven’t been tested to within an inch of their lives. When it comes to medicine, I’m not an “early adopter” type. But there are medical situations I could find myself in where I would choose to be very aggressive with treatments–including experimental treatments without an overwhelming amount of test data. That “medical situation” is now, with COVID. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/206 "2021-07-23T14:40:14Z")
Ma’am, I was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/207 "2021-07-23T14:56:24Z")
Don’t “ma’am” me, okay? Or was that sarcasm, too? We don’t have a sarcasm emoji. The closest thing is this one: 🤨 Sorry if I sounded patronizing and condescending, but your questions could easily have been meant literally. Around here, one never knows. Often, in a long thread, people just jump in without reading the OP. I intended for my answer to address your question in a simple and straightforward way. Maybe my answer clarified the issue for other less savvy individuals participating in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/208 "2021-07-23T16:00:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Governor Ivey of Alabama finally said what needed saying: “It’s time to start blaming those who are unvaccinated”: Correction for Governor Ivey: It’s way past time to start blaming those who are deliberately unvaccinated. As well as all the shameless grifters and opportunists who have been exploiting vaccine hesitancy and dishonest “liberty” rhetoric to fake up a narrative about dangers of government “overreach” for PR and political advantage. Including, for example, [Governor Ivey](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/alabama-governor-signs-bill-that-prohibits-vaccine-passports-2021-05-25/). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/209 "2021-07-23T16:29:24Z")
> [@mistymage](#): > > But… vaccinated people don’t usually die? Which is Good. > > But not everyone can get vaccinated. > > Which political side thinks those folks should just die quietly? The thread title refers to those that REFUSE the vaccine. Accuse me of redefining the boundaries after the fact, if you wish, but I’m not going to include people with a legitimate inability to receive the vaccine as “having access” to it, or their not receiving it on those grounds as REFUSAL. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/210 "2021-07-23T16:51:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The thread title refers to those that REFUSE the vaccine. Accuse me of redefining the boundaries after the fact, if you wish, but I’m not going to include people with a legitimate inability to receive the vaccine as “having access” to it, or their not receiving it on those grounds as REFUSAL.- I guess you didn’t see @mistymage’s reply to me when I said something similar: > [@mistymage](#): > > Ma’am, I was being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/211 "2021-07-23T16:55:00Z")
You are correct. I didn’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/212 "2021-07-23T20:54:25Z")
I put this in the other thread, but it seems appropriate here: [https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-conservative-talk-show-host-who-said-you-re-probably-safer-not-getting-the-vaccine-is-now-seriously-ill-with-covid-19-and-his-family-is-asking-people-to-please-go-get-vaccinated/ar-AAMtVUg?li=BBorjTa](https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-conservative-talk-show-host-who-said-you-re-probably-safer-not-getting-the-vaccine-is-now-seriously-ill-with-covid-19-and-his-family-is-asking-people-to-please-go-get-vaccinated/ar-AAMtVUg?li=BBorjTa) Conservative Value: It’s not real unless if affects me, personally. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2021, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/213 "2021-07-23T21:04:04Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > [MSN](https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/a-conservative-talk-show-host-who-said-you-re-probably-safer-not-getting-the-vaccine-is-now-seriously-ill-with-covid-19-and-his-family-is-asking-people-to-please-go-get-vaccinated/ar-AAMtVUg?li=BBorjTa) Reading that article, his family says he regrets, but the last words from him don’t reflect that: > [@](#): > > Valentine [posted on Facebook](https://www.facebook.com/phil.valentine.50/posts/10165213173055459) on July 11 that he had COVID-19. > > “Unfortunately for the haters out there, it looks like I’m going to make it,” he wrote. “Interesting experience. I’ll have to fill you in when I come back on the air. I’m hoping that will be tomorrow, but I may take a day off just as a precaution. It’ll be a game time decision.” > > On July 15, he shared doubts about the vaccine while posting a story about cancer-causing [chemicals](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/15/johnson-johnson-sunscreen-recall-benzene/) found in Johnson & Johnson sunscreens. > > “Ah, but I’m sure their vaccine is perfectly safe,” Valentine wrote. “Don’t worry about it.” > > He has not posted since. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/214 "2021-07-24T00:09:20Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Conservative Value: It’s not real unless if affects me, personally. And, even then, it still might not be real. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/215 "2021-07-24T00:14:56Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Watched a CNN “human interest story” this morning with a guy who looked to be in his 40’s, sitting in a hospital bed recovering from a bout of pneumonia due to contracting COVID because he refused to be vaccinated. When asked by a reporter if he’d get vaccinated now or having gone through what he went through, he responded that “No, I would not!”. When asked why, he said it was because, “They’re pushing the vaccine down people’s throats!”. This guy sounds like a toddler who won’t eat his vegetables. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2021, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/216 "2021-07-24T00:20:13Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > This guy sounds like a toddler who won’t eat his vegetables. 🙄 If the vegetables had the power to immunize him from a highly infectious and potentially deadly disease that was spreading throughout the human population that’s exactly what this **would** be. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2021, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/217 "2021-07-24T00:24:25Z")
“If the Democrat Gummint is promoting vegetables, then I sure as hell won’t be eating them! I won’t have vegetables shoved down **my** throat by them G.D. libruls!” ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/218 "2021-07-24T01:03:21Z")
Kind of like George Bush and broccoli. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/219 "2021-07-24T01:22:06Z")
Post presidency details reveal Trump was really quite ill. That he had significant hypoxia. It was more than unhelpful when he wanted to appear tough rather than warn others, whom he put at significant risk with pointless politicization and dogmatic insistence on unhealthy practice after the details were more known. Such misinformation makes vaccine hesitancy more understandable. But there has been time and experience enough to cut through the noise and nonsense. There may be some good reasons for declining a vaccine. Doubtless there are far more dubious ones. This is a tragedy of the commons - refusers do not pay for the real costs imposed. It is a tragedy of the commonwealth, poor countries in most need of vaccines will get too few too late, when the Covid costs make it clear expediting this everywhere carries enormous and widespread economic benefit per dollar spent. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2021, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/220 "2021-07-24T01:32:52Z")
How about all the illegals who are getting buses to the interior? No vaccines there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870.md?page=12)