# Shame on those that refuse the vaccine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870 "2021-07-20T01:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/683 "2021-08-19T16:36:49Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > there’s no one at the door checking brown bags for contraband candy bars. You could say that the school lunch program, with their rules on dietary content, are regulating the lunches, but there’s nothing keeping a parent from sending their kid to school with nothing but a stick of butter for lunch. Try sending your kid to school with a peanut butter sandwich these days. [Schools’ banned food list has gone nuts](https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/schools-banned-food-list-has-gone-nuts/news-story/e4af3705ebdd20ad6f9166dd4aed3967) > [@](#): > > SCHOOLS have banned lunchbox staples such as egg, mayonnaise, Nutella, peanut butter, kiwi fruit and bananas to protect a handful of students with severe food allergies. > > Children are not allowed to share food and have to wash their hands and face after recess and lunch to prevent cross-contamination. > > While the number of Australian children suffering from food allergies is on the rise, official guidelines on anaphylaxis in schools do not recommend blanket bans. > > Many schools forbid all nut products, but some have gone further, to include eggs and egg-based mayonnaise, fish products, fruits and chocolate that may contain traces of nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/684 "2021-08-19T17:20:52Z")
It’s so odd. There were no restrictions at my schools when I was a kid in regards to food (either served or brought) and nobody died in the cafeteria. (Though if they did I’d have blamed the quality of some of the “mystery meat” some of the hot lunches had, such as the “fishicken” as we called it that we couldn’t tell if it was fish, or chicken, or bat or snake or alligator or who knows what it was.) ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/685 "2021-08-19T17:57:04Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s so odd. There were no restrictions at my schools when I was a kid in regards to food (either served or brought) and nobody died in the cafeteria. [Food allergies are on the increase worldwide](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20201023-food-allergies-why-nut-dairy-and-food-allergy-are-rising). > More of the population has food allergies than ever before – and around the world, they are sending more and more people to hospital. One large-scale review of hospital admissions data found [anaphylaxis cases on the rise](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213219819309675) in the US, Australia and Europe, among other regions. In the US, [hospital visits for food allergy increased threefold](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19917585/) from 1993 to 2006. Between 2013 and 2019, [England saw a 72% rise in the number of hospital admissions for children caused by anaphylaxis](https://www.narf.org.uk/blog/2019/11/15/new-nhs-digital-figures-reveal-huge-rise-in-children-hospitalised-with-severe-allergic-reactions), from 1,015 admissions to 1,746. > > “That food allergies have risen is unquestionably the case, to an absolutely crazy extent,” says Graham Rook, emeritus professor of medical microbiology at University College London. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/686 "2021-08-19T17:57:57Z")
My theory is that the human race is tired and so it’s just giving up on existing. 🙂 (Ooh that would also explain anti-vaxxers!) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/687 "2021-08-19T21:11:50Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s so odd. There were no restrictions at my schools when I was a kid in regards to food (either served or brought) and nobody died in the cafeteria. It’s EXTREMELY odd, and while off topic, I wonder if this is legitimately a response to increasing food allergies or if there’s a mass hysteria thing / parents diagnosing their own children thing going on. I was going to tie think back into COVID, and I briefly had a neat way of using this as an analogy to people self-diagnosing with COVID, but it’s been a long day and my brain just shorted out. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/688 "2021-08-19T21:13:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s EXTREMELY odd, and while off topic, I wonder if this is legitimately a response to increasing food allergies or if there’s a mass hysteria thing / parents diagnosing their own children thing going on. That’s my suspicion but I try to be open-minded about it. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2021, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/689 "2021-08-19T21:59:36Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > My theory is that the human race is tired and so it’s just giving up on existing. Our time on Earth is drawing to a close. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/690 "2021-08-20T08:29:11Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I wonder if this is legitimately a response to increasing food allergies or if there’s a mass hysteria thing / parents diagnosing their own children thing going on. Bit of column A, bit of column B. > [@Atamasama](#): > > My theory is that the human race is tired and so it’s just giving up on existing. 🙂 And a bit of that too. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/692 "2021-08-20T17:07:41Z")
ShadowFacts’ cite seems to prove pretty conclusively that allergies are on the rise. The alternative explanation would be that people in the old days were tougher and just expected their kids to suck it up and get over the anaphylactic shock without any fancy hospital care. This seems implausible. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/693 "2021-08-20T17:30:16Z")
Infant mortality has been dropping for decades. Even compared to the early 90s, the death rate for under-5 has been cut almost in half (from low to very low, admittedly). Are children that would have died in previous decades more prone to food allergies? I have no clue but I would like to know if there are any statistical analyses. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/694 "2021-08-20T17:32:08Z")
My completely uninformed guess (so feel free to dismiss the ignorant rambling) is that there are some people with legitimate and serious allergies to peanuts. I don’t think people are going into psychosomatic anaphylaxis. But at the same time I suspect a large number of parents have a mild form of Munchausen Syndrome by-Proxy and declare their children to be deathly allergic when they aren’t at all (or it’s mild). The presence of these situations cast doubt on the legitimate allergies that are suffered. (Again this is my WAG.) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/695 "2021-08-20T17:34:22Z")
I also suspect (another WAG) that the reason you didn’t see any kids dropping dead in the cafeteria was not only that true anaphalaxis is relatively rare, but kids who had this in the past were dead before they ever reached your school. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/696 "2021-08-20T17:45:38Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > So long as you are convinced that government overreach can’t happen (and certainly not to _you_ ), I can’t penetrate that dream world There’s a vast stretch of real estate between a reasonable degree of confidence that government overreach _can’t_ happen and a reasonable degree of confidence that government overreach _won’t_ happen, and your apparent unwillingness to set one toe into that vast stretch suggests that your “freedom-loving” inflexibility is based more in timidity than in rationality. But then, your risk-evaluation skills have already been called into question. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/697 "2021-08-20T18:05:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > But at the same time I suspect a large number of parents have a mild form of Munchausen Syndrome by-Proxy and declare their children to be deathly allergic when they aren’t at all (or it’s mild). The presence of these situations cast doubt on the legitimate allergies that are suffered. I live in brownstone Brooklyn, which just possibly has the greatest concentration of highly-educated, affluent liberals anywhere in the world (I guess Berkeley is in the running, and maybe Georgetown). _Every_ child has special food needs and allergies and can only eat organic food picked and packaged by indigenous virgins paid a fair trade wage. Throwing a birthday party for a kid is a nightmare. Me, I just want to go with pizza and an ice cream cake\* (and believe me, the kids are on my side), but then the emails with every child’s special dietary needs start coming in… Poor kids. \* Which I bought at Costco. By the standards of brownstone Brooklyn, buying a cake at Costco, as opposed to the Park Slope Food Co-op, is _prima facie_ evidence of being a Trumpist. Even having a Costco membership card is suspect. It’s like having a CPUSA card in the fifties. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/698 "2021-08-20T18:21:02Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > By the standards of brownstone Brooklyn, buying a cake at Costco, as opposed to the Park Slope Food Co-op, is _prima facie_ evidence of being a Trumpist. Even having a Costco membership card is suspect. It’s like having a CPUSA card in the fifties. Is Bushwick far enough from Park Slope that my daughter’s Costco membership card won’t get her run out of the building she’s about to move into? I don’t want to have to sign _another_ guarantor application. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/699 "2021-08-20T18:24:46Z")
You never know. She might not actually have a CPUSA card, but she might be a fellow traveler. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/700 "2021-08-20T18:27:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > [@Ziberian](#): > > > > So long as you are convinced that government overreach can’t happen (and certainly not to _you_ ), I can’t penetrate that dream world > > There’s a vast stretch of real estate between a reasonable degree of confidence that government overreach _can’t_ happen and a reasonable degree of confidence that government overreach _won’t_ happen, and your apparent unwillingness to set one toe into that vast stretch suggests that your “freedom-loving” inflexibility is based more in timidity than in rationality. But then, your risk-evaluation skills have already been called into question. I’ve reconsidered my wording in the clause _There’s a vast stretch of real estate between a reasonable degree of confidence that government overreach **can’t** happen and a reasonable degree of confidence that government overreach **won’t** happen,_ A more felicitous statement would be: _There’s a vast stretch of real estate between a **conviction** that government overreach **can’t** happen and a reasonable degree of confidence that government overreach **won’t** happen,_ ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/701 "2021-08-20T18:29:25Z")
> [@Ziberian](#): > > No, you’re confusing actions that have direct impact on others (no stop signs) with those that don’t (seatbelt). Only if you think that I’m so heartless that “I got in a car accident, and it was my fault, fortunately no one was seriously hurt” and “I got in a car accident, and it was my fault, and I literally killed another human being and saw his brains all over his windshield” are equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/702 "2021-08-20T19:08:37Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > ShadowFacts’ cite seems to prove pretty conclusively that allergies are on the rise. The alternative explanation would be that people in the old days were tougher and just expected their kids to suck it up and get over the anaphylactic shock without any fancy hospital care. This seems implausible. I suspect there is a strong component of “people didn’t have as much access to medicine, and medicine wasn’t as advanced,” involved, though. Most food allergies aren’t fatal, they just make you feel sick. If little Johnny in the 19th century is sick all the time, and nobody knows what “celiac disease” is yet, then the solution is “Let little Johnny be sick, and hope he gets over it, or at least doesn’t die from it.” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/703 "2021-08-20T19:29:34Z")
It’s pretty widely accepted that lack of exposure to peanuts under 1 year old has led to higher rates of allergic kids. [Can Early Exposure Fix Food Allergies?](https://www.webmd.com/allergies/features/food-allergies-early-exposure) > [@](#): > > ## The Results of Early Exposure > > The shift in thinking came in 2015, when the results of a [clinical trial](https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/clincial-trial-guide-patients) known as LEAP (Learning Early About Peanut allergy) were published in _The New England Journal of Medicine_ . (The study is supported by the National Institutes of Health and the Immune Tolerance Network.) > > It revealed how early exposure to peanuts produced an 81% reduction in peanut allergy among high-risk children, deemed so because they had already tested positive for other [food allergies](https://www.webmd.com/allergies/food-allergy-intolerances) and/or had [eczema](https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/eczema/default.htm). More than 600 children ages 4 to 11 months either consumed, or strictly avoided, peanuts until age 5. Of the children who avoided peanuts, 17% had a peanut allergy by age 5, compared to only 3% in the peanut-consuming group. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870.md?page=36)