# Shame on those that refuse the vaccine **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870 "2021-07-20T01:15:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Folly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folly/32/3219_2.png) [@Folly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folly)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1120 "2021-11-02T22:43:31Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The kids are a problem, though. The UK is dealing with that right now. Sounds ominous. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1121 "2021-11-02T22:46:29Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I’ve lost 43 pounds during the pandemic. I realize that my experience is not exactly typical. Another congrats! I’m in the same boat and fighting the same never-ending war! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1122 "2021-11-02T23:05:23Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I cannot for the life of me understand why I keep reading articles that talk to experts who all have moderate hopes that this winter won’t be as bad as last. Snappy headlines suck you in? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1123 "2021-11-02T23:53:15Z")
Sadly, it’s not my call. Or I totally would’ve. ☹ And no, I’m not boycotting. Considering I haven’t seen the rest of my family in a while due to the pandemic, fuck it if I’m going to let one person ruin it for me. (Granted, I don’t know what, if anything was said between her and my cousin, and even if I did, I’m staying out of that. I don’t need the grief right now.) ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1124 "2021-11-03T02:48:55Z")
There are certain ideas that are wonderful as personal advice but make for lousy public policy. If a young person wanted my advice, I might tell them to work hard and cultivate connections in order to advance in a tight job market……but telling everyone to work harder and be a winner is not the right public policy for a tight job market where there aren’t enough seats at the table, as it were. Similarly, telling everyone to get healthier so maybe the disease won’t kill them is great personal advice but it’s not good public policy for a pandemic. And there have been discussions on this board, as well as in other places, about doctors “shaming” patients over diet and exercise issues and how people eschew preventative care if they think their doctor is going to lecture them. I’m fond of reminding people that a good way of strengthening their immune system against Covid is to inject a little bit of something harmless that looks like Covid into their bodies. This helps the immune system make the antibodies it needs to fight Covid. You can get this injection at your drugstore. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1125 "2021-11-03T05:13:50Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I’m fond of reminding people that a good way of strengthening their immune system against Covid is to inject a little bit of something harmless that looks like Covid into their bodies. Covid homeopathy! ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2021, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1126 "2021-11-03T08:31:14Z")
I get that it’s not your call, but I want to wave the flag again to say it is an option for hosts to require vaccines. Two good friends of mine are tying the knot this weekend, sans a bunch of crazy family members, because they made that call. Good for them. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1127 "2021-11-04T15:37:46Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > My thought about that was: > > > “If you really want to keep your immune system working optimally, there are things that you do that are normal things,” **Fauci told Business Insider** Thursday. > > [bolding mine] > > National spotlight. Not just a single interview on a single day. Hammer on it as part of the messaging. That’s what I didn’t hear. Physicians across the country (and around the world) are continually emphasizing the importance of proper diet, weight reduction and elimination/reduction of known toxin exposure (i.e. smoking and alcohol). And yet we still have people who claim that the “health establishment” only wants to promote drugs and vaccines instead of getting at the “root causes” of disease. It’s one hell of a lot easier to get people to wear masks and vaccinate than to give up weekly splurges at the Golden Corral.\* \*I wonder whether the name of that restaurant buffet chain is a snarky reference to their customers, lowing as they pile extra helpings of fried chicken and desserts onto their plates. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1128 "2021-11-04T15:44:11Z")
Something to consider that’s a bit counterintuitive but is second nature for those of us trained in the language of evidence-based medicine (which I teach for a living): We know that people who are overweight or obese have worse outcomes from COVID. What we don’t know, at least as far as I’m aware, is that losing weight (in any amount) leads to improved outcomes from COVID. It seems that one would follow the other, but that isn’t necessarily true. What is it about being obese that makes one have worse outcomes? Poorer overall health? Stress on the body from the extra pounds? Or is it possible that whatever is in one’s physiological makeup to make them tend toward obesity also makes them more susceptible to COVID complications? Is it possible that stress put on the body in the process of losing weight makes one more susceptible to COVID? What if there are protective benefits after losing weight, but they don’t accrue until one has been at the new weight for a long time? A lesson that I hammer into my students and residents is that studies and data sets say what they say, and nothing else. Learning to make those fine cuts is a big step in understanding medical literature. Now, if you asked me my opinion? I’d say that losing weight probably does have some benefit when it comes to COVID, and I’d bet that someone is out there trying to do that study right now. But I have no data to base that opinion on, and I wouldn’t be shocked to find that it isn’t the case. There are plenty of benefits to losing weight and we should be encouraging people to do it. But it would not be correct to encourage people to lose weight as a means of preventing COVID complications. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1129 "2021-11-04T17:29:17Z")
So, you’re saying correlation still doesn’t imply causation? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1130 "2021-11-04T17:41:25Z")
Yes, its not as if its been a big secret that smoking, bad diet and lack of exercise is bad for you. If worry about the effects on their health could motivate a lifestyle change they would have already altered it even without the danger from Covid. Concentrating on comorbitities, is just a way for people who don’t want to take the necessary precautions to distract from the main issue. Its just the same as gun rights advocates sudden interest in violent video games and mental health issues every time there is a mass shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1131 "2021-11-04T17:51:32Z")
There’s some research evidence to show that Covid-19 infection is associated with significant weight loss and even malnutrition. Hopefully, no nimrods will be inspired to send each other Covid-infected items through the mail as part of a weight loss plan. \*I once read a novel in which a morbidly obese protagonist achieved a slim figure after deliberately contracting dysentery. Not recommended. ---
**Author:** ![mistymage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mistymage/32/459_2.png) [@mistymage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mistymage)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1132 "2021-11-04T18:00:25Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Golden Corral.\* > > \*I wonder whether the name of that restaurant buffet chain is a snarky reference to their customers, lowing as they pile extra helpings of fried chicken and desserts onto their plates. Naw, it started out as a steakhouse and then morphed into a buffet. I remember in the 70s getting chopped steak smothered in mushrooms & gravy because it was the cheapest adult menu item that came with the salad bar. I was a kid but I loved my veggies. > **[Golden Corral Franchise - Golden Corral Buffet Restaurants](https://www.goldencorral.com/franchise/)** > > Golden Corral Buffet Restaurants appreciates your interest in becoming a franchisee. We look forward to hearing from you! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1133 "2021-11-04T19:12:28Z")
Maybe Packers’ QB Aaron Rodgers does deserve a bit of shaming - not just for going unvaccinated against Covid-19 and subsequently testing positive for the virus (resulting in his missing at least one game), but for basically lying about his status. According to ESPN, a reporter asked Rodgers back in August if he’d been vaccinated against Covid-19, and he responded “Yeah, I’ve been immunized.” Now that he’s tested positive, the protocols being followed by the Packers signify that in fact, he _wasn’t_ vaccinated. “According to ESPN’s Rob Demovsky, Rodgers pursued an alternative treatment and then petitioned the NFL to recognize him as vaccinated. The NFL refused, citing the clear language of the NFL-NFLPA agreement reached this summer.” > **[What now for Aaron Rodgers? Separating fact from fiction on the unvaccinated...](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32545222/aaron-rodgers-tests-positive-covid-19-rules-unvaccinated-nfl-players-packers-qb-return-more)** > > The Packers' superstar tested positive for COVID-19, and news broke that he is unvaccinated. Here's what we know about his situation and the NFL's protocols involved. So why was he deceptive about his vaccination status? I’d love to know what “alternative treatment” he felt was protecting him. Ivermectin? Colloidal silver? Incantations by the Capitol shaman? ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1134 "2021-11-04T19:21:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I’d love to know what “alternative treatment” he felt was protecting him. Ivermectin? Colloidal silver? Incantations by the Capitol shaman? From what I’ve read, it was “homeopathic treatment to raise his antibody levels.” ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1135 "2021-11-04T19:26:51Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Something to consider that’s a bit counterintuitive but is second nature for those of us trained in the language of evidence-based medicine (which I teach for a living): > > We know that people who are overweight or obese have worse outcomes from COVID. What we don’t know, at least as far as I’m aware, is that losing weight (in any amount) leads to improved outcomes from COVID. > > It seems that one would follow the other, but that isn’t necessarily true. What is it about being obese that makes one have worse outcomes? Poorer overall health? Stress on the body from the extra pounds? Or is it possible that whatever is in one’s physiological makeup to make them tend toward obesity also makes them more susceptible to COVID complications? Is it possible that stress put on the body in the process of losing weight makes one more susceptible to COVID? What if there are protective benefits after losing weight, but they don’t accrue until one has been at the new weight for a long time? > > A lesson that I hammer into my students and residents is that studies and data sets say what they say, and nothing else. Learning to make those fine cuts is a big step in understanding medical literature. > > Now, if you asked me my opinion? I’d say that losing weight probably does have some benefit when it comes to COVID, and I’d bet that someone is out there trying to do that study right now. But I have no data to base that opinion on, and I wouldn’t be shocked to find that it isn’t the case. > > There are plenty of benefits to losing weight and we should be encouraging people to do it. But it would not be correct to encourage people to lose weight as a means of preventing COVID complications. Great post. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1136 "2021-11-04T19:33:26Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > From what I’ve read, it was “homeopathic treatment to raise his antibody levels.” Wouldn’t _raising_ antibody levels be the opposite of success in homeopathy? I thought dilution to undetectable levels provided the best effect. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1137 "2021-11-04T19:35:06Z")
Don’t ask me. I’m no homeopathist! ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1138 "2021-11-04T19:38:10Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Wouldn’t _raising_ antibody levels be the opposite of success in homeopathy? I don’t think (and using the word think in conjunction with homeopathy is already a problem) that the homeopathy people reject the concept of antibodies, t-cells, etc. They just think that the way to kick start that stuff is diluted . So, I wouldn’t be surprised if they thought giving an adult the child size dose of the vaccine would be a better choice. Or pure saline. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shame-on-those-that-refuse-the-vaccine/946870/1139 "2021-11-04T20:03:10Z")
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