# Shaolin Monks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752 "2002-11-14T18:14:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Melraidin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Melraidin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melraidin)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/1 "2002-11-14T18:14:03Z")
Has anyone personally seen a Shaolin monk perform any of their fabled feats (like being hit with a huge log, being supported on a spear, etc.)? Anyone have an explanation for these feats? ---
**Author:** ![Fretburner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fretburner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretburner)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/2 "2002-11-14T19:14:23Z")
Yes. More chi! Train harder! ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/3 "2002-11-14T19:48:44Z")
Better question. Anybody have any pictures of these amazing feats that so many people have seen? ---
**Author:** ![Pencil\_Pusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Pencil\_Pusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pencil_Pusher)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/4 "2002-11-14T19:56:04Z")
In HK I saw a guy take regular plastic chopsticks and throw them about 10 feet into a 1/2 sheet of plywood. I know the chopsticks were not doctored because he called me up to the stage, had me pick up a bunch, hand him half and both of us threw it at the plywood. When I actually hit the wood, mine shattered into a million pieces. His went about 1/2 way through the wood, chopstick intact. Later in the demonstration, he tried the same trick while standing on eggs, and then again while standing on two knives. He was only able to get a couple through the wood while on the knives (I guess his mind was elsewhere). He also was able to squirm through a pipe that had a diameter that was about the size of his shoulders. Big deal you say. He did it sideways, in a full split, one leg first, then his torso, then his other leg. ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/5 "2002-11-14T21:18:54Z")
They toured the US recently. I saw the PBS broadcast of the live show. If it’s fake, I couldn’t see how they did it. If it’s real…wow. ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/6 "2002-11-15T00:02:01Z")
I’ve seen a documentary that included the bent spear thing to the throat of a Shaolin master. The guy teaches in New York ---
**Author:** ![john\_hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@john\_hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/john_hill)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/7 "2002-11-15T00:51:06Z")
Martial arts are as diverse as any art form, and that includes the performing arts I am a martial artist with over twelve years experience and I can assure you that the Shao-lin can do some amazing stuff. The only problem is finding an actual practitioner of the Shao-lin tradition. A lot of people try to trade on the name, so let the observer beware. With the Shao-lin and arts derived from the Chinese temple tradition, there is a mark of pride not only in the abilities they possess, but in their showmanship. Let me hasten to add that if a tradition embraces a performing ethos, well and good. One of the best known styles that have an overt connection to the theater is Choy-li-fut. To watch these guys do a lion dance is a joy. And, as has been mentioned in passing, the cultivation of Chi (Ki –Jpn.) is behind many of the feats of the Shao-lin. Iron Body chi kung, to give and example of just one of Chinese forms that generates ki, can generate this subtle energy that can then be channeled however the initiate chooses. As a Japanese practitioner, we have some of our own disciplines that generate ki. Most well established traditions have some ki work. So, the OP was seeing some amazing stuff. I am compelled to close with the warning that if you want to do any of these feats yourself, well, Grasshopper, get thee to a qualified instructor with the appropriate credentials and study, study, study ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/8 "2002-11-15T02:58:19Z")
These things are clever stunts. The Shaolin “monks” are a circus act. Lots of training, but there’s no magic involved. Qi/Ki/Chi - mysticism and nonsense… [http://skepdic.com/chi.html](http://skepdic.com/chi.html) ---
**Author:** ![puubs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/779978/32.png) [@puubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puubs)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/9 "2002-11-15T05:49:41Z")
Qi gong or not, my brother once got on stage with a shaolin monk (as a volunteer during a demonstration). He proceeded to kick him in the side and he said it was like kicking a tree. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/10 "2002-11-15T06:17:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by john hill \* > I am a martial artist with over twelve years experience and I can assure you that the Shao-lin can do some amazing stuff. The only problem is finding an actual practitioner of the Shao-lin tradition. A lot of people try to trade on the name, so let the observer beware. Not only the observer, but those “monks” should beware too: the real Shaolin Temple monks are getting savvy about the ways of the world! [http://www.usatoday.com/money/2002-09-25-kung-fu-trademark\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/money/2002-09-25-kung-fu-trademark_x.htm) > [@](#): > > In recent months, the temple in central China’s Henan province has been trying to register “Shaolin” and “Shaolin Temple” as trademarks with the government’s General Administration for Industry and Commerce. It has also set up a firm, Henan Shaolin Temple Industrial Development, to safeguard the temple’s name and ban its “abusive use” in commercial activities. > > The message: Don’t mess with the monks. > > “To those who abuse the name for commercial purposes, we’re going to take appropriate actions,” Qin Daliang, the new consortium’s general manager, said in a telephone interview Wednesday. > > In mainland China, more than 100 businesses — including those selling cars, food, liquor, medicine, even furniture — use a Shaolin trademark of some sort, the China Trademark and Patent Affairs Agency says. Six years ago, the temple’s vegetarian monks won a lawsuit against a company in a nearby town that was using the Shaolin name to market its product — canned hams. :eek: > [@](#): > > So far, the temple has procured the rights to five already registered Shaolin trademarks in Australia. And not only is it working to register the Shaolin name in 100 countries, Qin says, but it has applied to the United Nations as a “World Intangible Heritage” site. > > “We have to take steps to protect ourselves,” Qin said. “To protect the names of Shaolin and Shaolin Temple is to protect the classics of the Chinese culture.” ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/11 "2002-11-15T06:24:38Z")
I saw their show in Sydney a couple of years ago. The trick that baffled me the most was “spitting a needle through a sheet of glass”. We were sitting right at the edge of the stage and were showered by tiny pieces of glass when the trick was done. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/12 "2002-11-15T13:05:13Z")
My favorite is David Copperfield ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/13 "2002-11-15T13:10:44Z")
I haven’t been lucky enough to witness Shaolin Monks do their thing, but I have seen some pretty interesting things in my own art. Personally, I think that Shaolin taps into some of those things that the body can do that modern science cannot yet explain fully. This, of course, brings out the skeptics… but we shall see. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/14 "2002-11-15T13:19:02Z")
You have to remember that each monk is a specialist, they all only perform about one major feat each. I read a short interview with one of the monks whose skill is to do handstands but using just his index fingers. He believes that within a year he’ll be able to do it with only one finger. Other than general monkly duties and exercise, that’s all he does, day in and day out. If you spent 4 hours a day for 5 years practicing a single feat, I’m sure you’de get pretty damn good at it also, chi or not. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/15 "2002-11-15T14:00:17Z")
Once you can snatch a peble from the masters hand, you are ready Grasshopper. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/16 "2002-11-15T14:09:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\*Personally, I think that Shaolin taps into some of those things that the body can do that modern science cannot yet explain fully. > > This, of course, brings out the skeptics… but we shall see. \*\* The only reason “science” as you so say, cannot explain it, is because these so called “magical” monks won’t put themselves up to be studied. I see nothing magical about holding one self up with your fingers. If your fingers and forearms are strong enough and you have a great sense of balance it could be done. No chi required. Just physics. The cases that have been studied have shown “science” that most of these tricks are shams, just like theatrical magic. That they seem magical to you is incedental. My auto mechanic does things that seem magical to me, does that mean his Chi levels are high? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/17 "2002-11-15T14:50:53Z")
When I was a kid, I used to be fascinated by magicians who would take a coin and make it vanish into thin air. It’s as simple and common as magic tricks come, but that’s what impressed me - no props, just hands. One day, I did something very stupid and I bought a book on magic tricks. Gone were the wonders of the woman sawed in half and Chinese rings. The book also had a detailed description of the disapearing coin, and its variant, the disapearing card; complete with drawings. Now, when I see a magician emerge unscathed from a box that had previously been transpierced by a dozen swords, I go “ha, ha! It’s just a trick, and I know how it’s done!” However, when someone makes a coin vanish before my eyes, I still go “woa… how’d you _do_ that?” That’s because I spent hours practicing that stupid trick, and the only thing I accomplished was losing quarters in the gutters. (I should have known better than to practice outside…) There’s no word I hate more than “just”. Yeah, sure, when Michael Jordan airwalked, that was _just_ physics, nothing to get excited about. Same with Nolan Ryan hurling a 100 mph fastball, or Hicham El Gerrouj running a mile under 3:45. However, there is something “magical” about exploring the extreme limits of what the human body is capable of. And IMO, this includes standing yourself up on two fingers and punching through brick. Again, very much IMO, a lot of people - on both sides - sustain a false dichotomy between eastern concepts, like chi, and western science. Just because you can’t isolate a vial of 99.99% pure chi, doesn’t mean there is no such thing. After all, I’ve yet to see pure love or anger. However, I will call BS if you argue from ignorance and ascribe to chi or whatever magical properties that conveniently can’t be empirically measured. Wow, that really didn’t answer the op at all… My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![bryanmcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@bryanmcc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bryanmcc)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/18 "2002-11-16T20:52:41Z")
It is a combination of basic physics and concentration. You can walk on eggshells easilly enough if the pressure is distributed over a large enough area. Same with walking on the edge of a knife. Could I do it? Hell no. Then again, I haven’t practiced it for thousands of hours. Chi isn’t some mystical energy force, merely a state of concentrations, albeit a mighty impressive one. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/19 "2002-11-16T21:13:04Z")
I also have many years experience in the martial arts. Ki is bunk. It’s all about physics, leverage, and physical conditioning. For example, in my style we practice punching a ‘makiwara’ board, which is a board with a slight amount of give, wrapped in rope or some other rough substance. After a few years of this, the hand becomes basically a big mallet with a tough, leathery surface. We condition our forearms, legs, neck, etc. I have had 2x2 boards broken over my forearms and thighs. During _Sanchin_ kata, our Sensei moves up and down the ranks kicking and punching us in the legs, stomach, back, arms, etc. It’s all about technique and conditioning. The famous ‘death punch’ or 1-inch punch that was supposed to be an example of great ki is really just an application of physics - rather than swinging the arms and using their momentum to deliver energy, you use your hips to get the entire weight of your body rotating, then by flexing your arms and other muscles just right, you transfer all that force into the end of your hand. Physics, training, and conditioning. No mysticism necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Obvious\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Obvious\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obvious_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752/20 "2002-11-16T22:12:00Z")
I’ve seen a documentary where monks in tabet would spend the night outside in the snow with nothing more than a few garbs on. These monks could also wrap cloths that were dipped in cold water and raise there body temp to make steam come from them. These guys lived high in the moutains, I would like to see a skeptic try that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shaolin-monks/136752.md?page=2)