# Share Me A Clue: Cotton Is Racist??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 19, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697 "2017-09-19T06:04:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/81 "2017-09-20T18:40:48Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > And your intellectual Twister exercise is equally absurd. Fajitas are not identified with Latinos. Fajitas can be vegan/vegetarian. Fajitas are customizable. Fajitas are an excellent choice for a meal with strangers. You’ve now moved from arguing that it’s OK to choose ethnic stereotypes because they make people comfortable to arguing that Tex-mex food isn’t associated with Latinos. I agree you’re probably on marginally firmer ground in the second argument, but only by comparison. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/82 "2017-09-20T18:41:56Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Cotton was primarily picked by slaves, and slaves primarily picked cotton. Slave labor was 4/5ths of the South’s economic output. And in the 19th century, cotton was king. It was the leading American export for over a century, and for many decades a bigger export than all other exports combined. It was the significant driver of the growth of industry and finance in the North. We can debate the precise contribution of slave labor to US economic development, but there is no debate that it is staggering. Again…ALL those white people were just sitting around doing nothing? I’m not buying it. Most of history has recorded that most people working their asses off from birth to death…yeah, much better to NOT be a slave…but AFAIK tell, there weren’t a bunch of Robin Leaches (gawd what appropriate name) lounging around either. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/83 "2017-09-20T18:47:16Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Again…ALL those white people were just sitting around doing nothing? No, of course not. I never said or implied any such thing. In fact, only a very small percentage of Southerners owned a significant number of slaves. IIRC, it’s like less than 1% of whites owned more than 30. Of course, your feeling that criticism of slavery somehow denigrates poor white people doesn’t come out of nowhere. It has a long historical pedigree. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/84 "2017-09-20T18:52:23Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > No, of course not. I never said or implied any such thing. In fact, only a very small percentage of Southerners owned a significant number of slaves. IIRC, it’s like less than 1% of whites owned more than 30. > > Of course, your feeling that criticism of slavery somehow denigrates poor white people doesn’t come out of nowhere. It has a long historical pedigree. Denigrates is your word choice (and quite telling I might add). Sure some unhappy slaves picked a shitload of cotton. So did a shitload of one supposes slightly less unhappy white people. Which brings us back to display of cotton at Hobby Lobby. And the over the top reaction to it (the college thing is a whole other can of worms). Please. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/85 "2017-09-20T18:54:24Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Do you have a cite that I am wrong? I didn’t make a claim – you did. Do you have a cite for the claim you made, or was it plucked from the ether? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/86 "2017-09-20T18:56:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You’ve now moved from arguing that it’s OK to choose ethnic stereotypes because they make people comfortable to arguing that Tex-mex food isn’t associated with Latinos. > > I agree you’re probably on marginally firmer ground in the second argument, but only by comparison. It isn’t only associated with Latinos. Would you have a second thought about serving Chateaubriand to a French? Jerk chicken to a Jamaican? Sushi to a Japanese? Unless we know that they 1)Don’t like the dish or 2)Know that they have an adventurous palate. Many are finicky eaters and it is polite to try to serve food your guests will be comfortable with. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/87 "2017-09-20T18:56:55Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So did a shitload of one supposes slightly less unhappy white people. Again, do you have a cite for this that quantifies this in any way? I’m sure that at least some white people in America have picked cotton. I don’t know how many, and you’re making a claim that more white people picked cotton than black people. What leads you to this conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/88 "2017-09-20T18:57:55Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Sure some unhappy slaves picked a shitload of cotton. So did a shitload of one supposes slightly less unhappy white people. The idea you’ve expressed here, that poor whites were only slightly worse-off than slaves, is an idea you have because of racism. The fact that you express it here so plainly should serve as a reminder to others how very much alive-and-well these ideas are in America in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/89 "2017-09-20T18:59:22Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > It isn’t only associated with Latinos. Would you have a second thought about serving Chateaubriand to a French? Jerk chicken to a Jamaican? Sushi to a Japanese? Unless we know that they 1)Don’t like the dish or 2)Know that they have an adventurous palate. Many are finicky eaters and it is polite to try to serve food your guests will be comfortable with. It is telling that you compare Latinos to non-Americans. You may be surprised to learn that these Latino students were probably born and raised…in the United States! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/90 "2017-09-20T19:05:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > So he should have a monkey throw a dart at a menu to select food? What’s wrong with assuming that a Hispanic person might like a fajita? It’s obviously not certain that a random Hispanic person likes fajitas but it’s not a bad guess. If that was the only instance, then it could be nothing. But if there are multiple instances of serving stereotypical food to different groups, along with decor that can be quite reasonably seen (whatever the intent) to reference slavery, then criticism seems appropriate. > [@](#): > > It’d be offensive and racist to have pineapple if a friend from Hawaii visited? At what point does this nonsense become recognized for being nonsense? This isn’t such a huge deal. Criticism isn’t such a huge deal. It’s okay to talk about these things, and it’s okay to criticize someone if you think they’re being insensitive. Serving stereotypical food to folks can be seen as condescending, since they might interpret it as implying they don’t eat other foods. When you add the slavery decor, even if it wasn’t meant to symbolize slavery, the tone-deafness (at best) is even more clear. If someone is that tone-deaf (or worse), criticizing them is helping to give them the tools to avoid such appearance of condescension and feeding into stereotypes in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/91 "2017-09-20T19:08:37Z")
I’m really curious what the thought process was when selecting cotton centerpieces. Was it like, 'let’s think about something that stereotypes ethnicity. Hmm…ok flaming crosses…nah that wouldn’t go with the drapes. Nooses…hmm, they take up too much space. I know, cotton! Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. Not the end of the world, but certainly not a proud moment. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/92 "2017-09-20T19:17:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Again, do you have a cite for this that quantifies this in any way? I’m sure that at least some white people in America have picked cotton. I don’t know how many, and you’re making a claim that more white people picked cotton than black people. What leads you to this conclusion? Basic numbers and economics…kinda like the Drake Equation…could be wrong I suppose but the logic is not fundamentally flawed IMO. What leads you to YOUR conclusion? PS…IFF I am fundamentally wrong as wrong can be…then a counter cite should be a piece of cake… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/93 "2017-09-20T19:20:35Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The idea you’ve expressed here, that poor whites were only slightly worse-off than slaves, is an idea you have because of racism. The fact that you express it here so plainly should serve as a reminder to others how very much alive-and-well these ideas are in America in 2017. Subtle sarcasm is lost on you apparently. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/94 "2017-09-20T19:21:08Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It is telling that you compare Latinos to non-Americans. You may be surprised to learn that these Latino students were probably born and raised…in the United States! So then…since most Latinos don’t come from the US… :dubious: You can do better. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/95 "2017-09-20T19:27:53Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Subtle sarcasm is lost on you apparently. Poe’s law. Glad to hear you didn’t mean it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/96 "2017-09-20T19:31:50Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Basic numbers and economics…kinda like the Drake Equation…could be wrong I suppose but the logic is not fundamentally flawed IMO. > > What leads you to YOUR conclusion? > > PS…IFF I am fundamentally wrong as wrong can be…then a counter cite should be a piece of cake… Before 1865, nearly all the cotton picking in the US was done by slaves. Notably, pretty much all the cotton was grown in the South at this point. I can’t find a single cite that any significant number of white workers in the US picked cotton before then. Why would they? Slave labor was far, far cheaper (room and board only, and very poor quality room and board) than having to pay workers, and slaves worked much longer hours (and were subject to brutalization if they refused). Afterwards, until the mechanical cotton picker was invented (1920s, but wasn’t very useful or reliable) and made reliable (in the 1950s), a mix of black and white sharecroppers picked most of the cotton in the US. At first (1870s), only freed black families were sharecroppers. Later, some white farmers also became sharecroppers, and by about 1930 or so, slightly more than half of Southern sharecroppers (8 or 9 million total) were white. So from 1930 to 1950, perhaps it would be accurate to say that more white Americans than black Americans picked cotton. But for all of American history? That’s ludicrous. Before 1865, virtually all cotton was picked by slaves under brutal conditions. From 1865 to the early 20th century, most of the cotton picking still would have been done by black sharecroppers. At some point, that changed, but based on all this the notion that more white people picked cotton than black people seems to be extremely unlikely. > **[Cotton | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton#United_States)** > > In the United States, growing Southern cotton generated significant wealth and capital for the antebellum South, as well as raw material for Northern textile industries. Before 1865 the cotton was largely produced through the labor of enslaved African Americans. It enriched both the Southern landowners and the new textile industries of the Northeastern United States and northwestern Europe. In 1860 the slogan "Cotton is king" characterized the attitude of Southern leaders toward this monocrop in ... > **[Sharecropping | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharecropping#United_States)** > > Prior to the Civil War, sharecropping is known to have existed in Mississippi and is believed to have been in place in Tennessee. However, it was not until the economic upheaval caused by the American Civil War and the end of slavery during and after Reconstruction that it became widespread in the South. It is theorized that sharecropping in the United States originated in the Natchez District, roughly centered in Adams County, Mississippi with its county seat, Natchez. > After the war, plantation... ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/97 "2017-09-20T19:36:04Z")
See, that wasn’t so hard was it? Though I might beg to differ on some details. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/98 "2017-09-20T19:38:19Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > See, that wasn’t so hard was it? > > Though I might beg to differ on some details. Then why did you make the claim? Maybe you should re-examine some of your basic assumptions on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/99 "2017-09-20T19:49:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Then why did you make the claim? Maybe you should re-examine some of your basic assumptions on the topic. Did you KNOW that or did you THINK you knew that and found a cite after the fact? Common knowledge can be a dangerous thing on all sides. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697/100 "2017-09-20T19:52:19Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Did you KNOW that or did you THINK you knew that and found a cite after the fact? > > Common knowledge can be a dangerous thing on all sides. I didn’t make any claim before I looked it up. I strongly suspected that your claim was BS, but I wasn’t going to make a claim about it (and I didn’t – asking you for a cite isn’t making a claim) until I actually looked it up and had a cite. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/share-me-a-clue-cotton-is-racist/796697.md?page=6)