# Sharon's plan is to expel the Palestinians to Jordan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 30, 2002, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958 "2002-03-30T20:57:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2002, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958/21 "2002-03-31T01:41:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Aren’t you on thin ice here ? > > Palestinians does not have as a goal to eraze Israel. Absolutely false. The PLO charter calls for the destruction of Israel and in the nine years since the Oslo meeting (when they promised to remove that language) they have never even submitted a proposal to change that article of their charter. Your opinions would carry _some_ weight if you did not include complete falsehoods in the midst of your wild speculation. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2002, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958/22 "2002-03-31T01:45:38Z")
Vulcanus said: > [@](#): > > Aren’t you on thin ice here ? > > Palestinians does not have as a goal to eraze Israel. What?! Have you paid _any_ attention to this entire situation? It’s in the PLO charter, fercryingoutloud. (A while ago Arafat agreed to remove it, but if memory serves, they never actually did. If they did, it was for political purposes only.) Hamas and other organizations have made it clear that the only way peace will come is when Israel ceases to exist. > [@](#): > > Even Hamas have staded that they want Israel to drow back to the 1967 border. Cite? For example, the _Chicago Tribune_ noted just yesterday that in response to the Arab League’s peace proposal, “Hamas, the Islamic militant group that said it was behind Wednesday’s deadly suicide bombing during a Passover seder in Netanya, rejected the Arab initiative and vowed to continue ‘all kinds of resistance,’ according to The Associated Press.” > [@](#): > > By the way: I think that Jerusalem are holy to the moslems too. Probably is, which only makes it that much more difficult. > [@](#): > > Let’s make one thing clear: Israel is a political mandate, not a religious one. According to who? Certainly not most Jews, who view this as a religious mandate. > [@](#): > > Yes, but there will always exist such groups on both sides. They are only marignal groups thoug and they will be even more marignal when Israel fulfill what UN have said. What should Israel fulfill? And why aren’t you asking that Arafat fulfills his side of the bargain? > [@](#): > > You must also see that Israel them selves creates much of these extreme groups and individuals that attack them. It’s a chicken-and-egg question. Yes, some join the extremist groups because of Israeli actions, but Israel often takes those actions because of what the extremist groups do. ---
**Author:** ![Vulcanus\_DX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e79b87/32.png) [@Vulcanus\_DX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vulcanus_DX)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2002, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958/23 "2002-03-31T02:05:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* > What?! Have you paid _any_ attention to this entire situation? It’s in the PLO charter, fercryingoutloud. (A while ago Arafat agreed to remove it, but if memory serves, they never actually did. If they did, it was for political purposes only.) Did they or didn’t they. I was sure they did back in the 90’s. > [@](#): > > Hamas and other organizations have made it clear that the only way peace will come is when Israel ceases to exist. Hamas leaders have said several times on tv that they want Israel to drow back to the 1967 border, but I wouldn’t bet my money on these statments. > [@](#): > > According to who? Certainly not most Jews, who view this as a religious mandate. WOW. This came as a surprise to me. You actually mean that most jews see upon this as a religious mandate. The israelis are then in some trouble if you ask me. > [@](#): > > What should Israel fulfill? What UN have said over and over for several decades. As shall come back to this thread later ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958/24 "2002-03-31T02:06:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Vulcanus\_DX \* > Palestinians does not have as a goal to eraze Israel. Clearly there are at least some Palestinians who _do_ have a goal of completely destroying Israel. > [@](#): > > Even Hamas have staded that they want Israel to drow back to the 1967 border. Do you have a cite for that? Because it contradicts everything I have ever read about Hamas, including what [Hamas itself says](http://www.palestine-info.com/hamas/about/index.htm#anchor12760): > [@](#): > > About the Islamic Resistance Movement “Hamas” – Hamas’ position regarding the political settlement: > > …The very essence of any political settlement, irrespective of its origin or content, entails recognition of the Zionist enemy’s right to exist on most parts of Palestine, which deprives millions of Palestinians the right to return, to determine their future and build their independent state on the whole of Palestinian land. This is indeed contradictory to human and international values and traditions, and is also forbidden under the Islamic jurisprudence. This should not be allowed to happen because the land of Palestine is a blessed Islamic land that has been usurped by the Zionists; and Jihad has become a duty for Muslims to restore it and expeltheir occupiers out of their land. > [@](#): > > (but I can’t say for sure what these extremistic groups want’s) If Hamas is not one of the extremist groups, exactly who is? > [@](#): > > Palestina want’s East-Jerusalem as they capital, not the whole City. Again, those Palestinians who seek to eliminate Israel as a state want the whole city of Jerusalem as their capital. > [@](#): > > Let’s make one thing clear: Israel is a political mandate, not a religious one. Actually, I agree with this. Historically, Zionism has been a nationalist movement, not a theological one. Palestinian nationalism has come in both secular and theocratic flavors; Hamas is clearly on the theocratic side, with Fatah and the PLO having originally been a secular national liberation movement (although the “Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade” has blurred that line considerably with its rhetoric and tactics). Many secular nationalists have also sought to completely eliminate Israel in the name of Palestinian national aspirations, but secular nationalism may be more open to compromise than movements rooted in the absolute claims of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2002, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958/25 "2002-03-31T04:32:25Z")
Isn’t Jerusalem also holy to Christians-wasn’t that the whole point of the Crusades? ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2002, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958/26 "2002-03-31T05:31:05Z")
Since this thread was started by a returning troll, I’m gonna shut it down. Lynn For the Straight Dope [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sharons-plan-is-to-expel-the-palestinians-to-jordan/100958.md?page=1)