# Shawn, Sean and Sade **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 10, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956 "2001-05-10T03:30:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/1 "2001-05-10T03:30:22Z")
I paid close attention in my History Of The English Language class (can you believe it was an elective)? But we didn’t study linguistics to much of an extent. Basically the linguistics I know is just barely enough to not get totally lost when reading the “A,E,I…” thread. So, can anyone explain to me why we (are supposed to) pronounce Sean the same way as Shawn? I can’t figure out how anything in the spelling would prompt the sh sound. This goes for the singer Sade too. I suppose it’s an ethnic pronunciation I’m not familiar with, because were I to say that name, not knowing how it actually is said, I’d probably pronounce it something like Say-did. ---
**Author:** ![Sassy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@Sassy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sassy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/2 "2001-05-10T03:53:44Z")
There’s an accent in the name Sean, which is rarely used in American spellings. It’s sorta between the e and the a, and I dont know how to spell what it’s called. In any case, the accent told you (in the original Gaelic) that you needed a SH sound. There are other “hidden” accents in Gaelic, some of which have been replaced by letters in the modern form of the language. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Gatsby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@Gatsby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatsby)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/3 "2001-05-10T03:59:41Z")
Perhaps you should look into Anthropology 101. Here is an interesting look at the [Nacimera](http://www.msu.edu/~jdowell/miner.html) people. Just keep in mind, the rest of the world isn’t exactly as informed as we Americans on how to behave in the world, much less pronounce things. Best of luck in your academic pursuits. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/4 "2001-05-10T07:06:39Z")
[PYTHON]"It’s SPELLED ‘Raymond Luxury-Yacht’ but it’s pronounced ‘Throat-Warbler Mangrove’ "[/PYTHON] ---
**Author:** ![glass\_onion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@glass\_onion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glass_onion)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/5 "2001-05-10T10:10:56Z")
sean is a gaelic name, from ireland, where i am from. it is pronounced “shawn” because of the accent over the “e”.it is called a “fada”, pronounced “faw-daw” said rather quickly. it elongates the vowel it appears over. the “s” takes a “sh” sound as every “s” in the irish language does. without the fada this word is pronounced “shan”, meaning old. the name “Shawn” is merely an ugly americanisation of the irish name, because they couldnt comprehend how to pronounce the irish version. as for the “Sade” thing…i dont know. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/6 "2001-05-10T12:17:15Z")
Let us not forget the also popular “Shane.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/7 "2001-05-10T12:38:54Z")
Sean isn’t that much of an aberration. Think of “sugar” or “sure.” ---
**Author:** ![mongrel\_8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@mongrel\_8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mongrel_8)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/8 "2001-05-10T13:54:12Z")
[minor hijack] **glass onion** , I thought that the “s” became “sh” in Irish Gaelic when it was followed by the slender vowels “i” or “e”. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/9 "2001-05-10T18:26:47Z")
mongrel\_8 is correct. In Irish (and Scots Gaelic), the letter s is pronounced “sh” when adjacent to an e or an I (the exception being the copula, _is_, which rhymes with “kiss”). When adjacent to an a, o, or u, the Gaelic s is like the English s. > [@](#): > > it is called a “fada”, pronounced “faw-daw” said rather quickly. it elongates the vowel it appears over. You’re right on that point, but the fada is actually over the a, not the e, in _Seán_. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/10 "2001-05-10T19:06:57Z")
“It’s SPELLED ‘Raymond Luxury-Yacht’ but it’s pronounced ‘Throat-Warbler Mangrove.’” Or, alternately, “It’s SPELLED ‘Ralph Fiennes’ but it’s pronounced ‘Rafe Fines.’” I wouldn’t mind, if only he weren’t so arrogant and snippy about it . . . The most imaginative is actor Sean Bean, whose name can alternately be pronounced, • Shawn Been • Seen Bawn • Shawn Bawn • Seen Been ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2001, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/11 "2001-05-10T20:16:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glass onion \* > **the name “Shawn” is merely an ugly americanisation of the irish name, because they couldnt comprehend how to pronounce the irish version.** Gosh, thanks! Nice to know that you think my name is “ugly”. Try a little consideration before you make pig-headed statements like that. I happen to like the spelling of my name, and the fact that nobody mis-pronounces it. Just because “Sean” is the preferred Irish spelling of the name does not mean it’s the only correct way to spell it. Anyway, it’s the Irish Gaelic version of “John” just like “Seamus” is the Irish version of “James”. Seems the Gaelic language didn’t have a “j” sound so they made do and modified names they liked so they’d fit their needs. Just like Americans do. Besides, having your name mis-pronounced is almost as annoying as dealing with the know-it-alls who think they know the ‘correct’ way to spell it. Congratulations - your first post and you’ve already managed to annoy another Doper! It took me about a dozen posts before I pissed someone off…Welcome aboard, Onion! ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/12 "2001-05-11T05:29:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > **the letter s is pronounced “sh” when adjacent to an e or an I** that should be “an e or an **i** ” ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/13 "2001-05-11T05:32:01Z")
Another common example of an Americanized name is Caitlin, which is actually pronounced “Kathleen”. ---
**Author:** ![jaybee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@jaybee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaybee)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/14 "2001-05-11T17:34:18Z")
Sade (pronounced Char-day) is French. Not sure why they pronounce many things they way they do. It seems that she comes out with an album every 6 years or so and another generation of music buyers gets confused. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/15 "2001-05-11T18:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jaybee \* > **Sade (pronounced Char-day)** What’s that r doing in there? You say the r but don’t write it? Just the opposite of RP where you write it but don’t say it. Confused is right. In Hungarian, s is always pronounced sh. To get the s sound, they write “sz.” When they transcribe foreign words with the s sound according to Hungarian spelling, it looks funny. For example, “express” in Hungarian is spelled _ekszpresz_. That reminds me of nothing so much as the sputtering diction of Daffy Duck. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/16 "2001-05-11T19:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andygirl \* > \*\*Another common example of an Americanized name is Caitlin, which is actually pronounced “Kathleen”. \*\* “kahtleen” or “kahtchleen” actually. But close enough. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/17 "2001-05-11T21:39:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jomo Mojo \* > \*\*In Hungarian, s is always pronounced sh. To get the s sound, they write “sz.” \*\* Sade is _Hungarian_? Now I’m really confused. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2001, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/18 "2001-05-11T22:54:40Z")
Sade herself might be a French person but the name “Sade” in French is pronounced almost (but not exactly) like “sawd,” not chah-day or char-day. If they are pronouncing it char-day in France, that’s only becuase that’s how _she_ pronounces it (although I think I’ve heard her say it without the R sound), not because that would be the standard French pronunciation. How about “Liam”? I cannot tell you how many idiots have insisted to me that it’s pronounced “lamb.” (None of them Irish, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/19 "2001-05-12T03:53:18Z")
Sade comes from Britain. Her ancestry is Nigerian/British and was originally “Helen Adu”. So, Sade is her stage name. ---
**Author:** ![jaimest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/48db29/32.png) [@jaimest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaimest)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956/20 "2001-05-12T04:35:23Z")
Dennis Leary had a bit about Sade’s disregard for phonetics, something like, “Sharday can shuckay my pernish”…well I thought it was funny. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawn-sean-and-sade/64956.md?page=2)