# Shawshank Redemption: a question about timing **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [May 12, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344 "2022-05-12T22:12:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/21 "2022-05-13T03:07:26Z")
If I was Andy, I would be afraid the warden would take down the cheesecake posters just to punish him. A religious image would have been safer, I would think. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/22 "2022-05-13T03:30:16Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Tim Robbins (Andy Dufresne) is a good three inches taller than Bob Gunton (Warden Norton); I actually guessed the difference was even more than that. So, you have to accept a bit of suspension of belief. But then, people don’t seem to have any problem accepting the blond, Jewish James Caan as a Sicilian-American Santino “Sonny” Corleone in _The Godfather_ , so I think we can give _The Shawshank Redemption_ a pass on a few inches of height difference. Was it established in the film that the _character_ Andy Dufresne was around 3" taller than the _character_ Warden Norton? Did it figure into the plot? (I don’t remember). Or are people getting mixed up and comparing the heights of the two _actors_ when their heights don’t matter at all as far as the story goes. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/23 "2022-05-13T03:34:29Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > If I was Andy, I would be afraid the warden would take down the cheesecake posters just to punish him. A religious image would have been safer, I would think. Or the whole scheme would have fallen apart had he been assigned to a different cell. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/24 "2022-05-13T03:43:20Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Was it established in the film that the _character_ Andy Dufresne was around 3" taller than the _character_ Warden Norton? Did it figure into the plot? (I don’t remember). Red calls him a tall drink of water upon first seeing him IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![gkster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gkster/32/14107_2.png) [@gkster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gkster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/25 "2022-05-13T04:25:20Z")
IMDB trivia page says [Bob Gunton](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0348409) pointed out that [Tim Robbins](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000209)’ towering height (6’5") narrowed down the number of actors who could play Warden Norton, since Andy’s escape plan is dependent on stealing and wearing Norton’s suit. Gunton is 6’2". ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/26 "2022-05-13T05:08:09Z")
I’ve wondered about this too. However. how far along into his sentence did he start digging? If you hadn’t been moved in 4 years it’s a reasonable assumption. Not sure if that’s how it actually went. I can think of a couple plusses though: not riling up the inmates by inconveniencing them, and not inconveniencing yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/27 "2022-05-13T05:22:34Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > He chipped his way through ten feet of concrete In the novella, the state economized on the concrete for the prison, which was possibly also sourced in a corrupt manner, which was the only reason he was able to chip through it so fast. His problem was limiting himself each night because he could only really sneak about a handful of it outside his cell each day. > [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > However. how far along into his sentence did he start digging? If you hadn’t been moved in 4 years it’s a reasonable assumption. In the novella, pretty soon after he arrived at Shawshank. That was partly the reason he let himself be used - once each new warden found out about him and got into the schemes, they gave him little perks like not having a cellmate. He did get a cellmate at one point after a new warden took over and Andy treated his cellmate coldly - because he had to stop digging for several months. They moved the cellmate once the new warden got fully plugged in. There were several wardens over the years in the novella as would be natural for a real prison, some of them former guards. That was one of the horrifying little details in the novella. Most of them got away with it without suffering any consequences. That’s just life sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/28 "2022-05-13T13:14:02Z")
In the novella, the last poster Andy had in his cell was Linda Ronstadt from the mid-'70s (?). ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/29 "2022-05-13T13:24:55Z")
They were rewarding him with the one bunk Hilton for doing their taxes and being the warden’s pet. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/30 "2022-05-13T13:47:59Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “Red? Why do they call you that?” > “…maybe it’s because I’m Irish.” I believe the either letter that Andy sent from the Mexican boarder was addressed to Redd or his parole papers had Redd on them (maybe both). So it would have been his first name. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/31 "2022-05-13T13:52:20Z")
No, the character’s name is Ellis Boyd Redding. The nickname “Red” is a holdover from the novella, in which the character has red hair and is indeed Irish. ETA: Morgan Freeman’s portrayal could be of Irish-[Nigerian](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp8iter/p8iter/p8e/) heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/32 "2022-05-13T14:14:32Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > the character’s name is Ellis Boyd Redding So in the movie they justified the nickname Red from his last name. I was aware that in the book that Red was supposed to be Irish but have never read it, did Red have a different name in the book? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/33 "2022-05-13T14:23:09Z")
Unnamed narrator in the novella but known to be Irish. Kind of makes sense - I doubt the black population of Maine back then exceeded 1% of the total (I’m not sure it much exceeds 1% even today). A Maine state prison like Shawshank would have had fewer black prisoners in reality. Even increasing that by an order of magnitude, that’s only 1 in 10 prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/34 "2022-05-13T17:40:08Z")
My eternal question about Shawshank is how did he know there would be a thunderstorm that would cover the sound of him slamming a rock into the sewer pipe? I can’t remember if that was in the original story. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/35 "2022-05-13T18:33:22Z")
OK, I just looked it up in the novella. Andy came to Shawshank in 1948. He escaped on March 12, 1975, a few months before the prison was to switch to a new wastewater treatment plant. Warden Norton resigned in disgrace 3 months later and was still alive at the end of the story. And a quick skim of the jailbreak narrative doesn’t say anything about shoes. Or about a thunderstorm. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/36 "2022-05-13T18:48:24Z")
I think we can just take the film and the novella to be separate things, with the latter influenced by the former but not in any way confined or defined by it. I’m sure the novella is quite good (I think King is actually a better writer outside of the horror genre than he is within it) but the movie is phenomenal for its performances, pacing, cinematography, and character development. That the surprise reveal hinges on details that the viewer wouldn’t have any reason to pick up on in a first viewing in no way dilutes the impact in subsequent viewings where you know Andy is planning to escape, and is really sustained by the fact that the thrust of the story has nothing to do with his escape plans but rather his own personal development and relationship with the other prisoners and the warden. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/37 "2022-05-13T18:55:19Z")
Oh, I totally agree. I thoroughly enjoyed the novella (I’ve read it several times), and I also thoroughly enjoyed the movie, which I’ve also watched several times. The gist of the story remains the same, although a lot of details were changed from print to screen. ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/38 "2022-05-13T18:57:36Z")
I agree, too! It’s one of my all-time favorite films, and I never fail to watch it when scrolling for something to watch. I’ve re-read it many, many times as well. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/39 "2022-05-13T19:26:04Z")
This is good: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wK9p-h0-C44/maxresdefault.jpg "Family Guy: Three Kings Promo 3 HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK9p-h0-C44) ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344/40 "2022-05-13T20:52:43Z")
“Red” at one time was a common nickname for light-skinned African-Americans, especially if their hair was lighter. Malcom X said in his autobiography that his moniker back in the day was “Detroit Red”. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > In the novella, the state economized on the concrete for the prison, which was possibly also sourced in a corrupt manner, which was the only reason he was able to chip through it so fast. His problem was limiting himself each night because he could only really sneak about a handful of it outside his cell each day. Another limiting factor was that a rock hammer tiny enough to hide in a bible was indeed, as Red noted, a puny instrument for tunneling. IIRC the novella said that Andy completely wore out one of them and was on his second when he escaped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-a-question-about-timing/964344.md?page=3)