# Shawshank Redemption- When they come for the warden **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527 "2018-04-16T18:30:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/1 "2018-04-16T18:30:53Z")
How much evidence could Dufresne have put in that envelope he sent to the paper? He didn’t actually witness the greaser’s murder, and the allegations against the warden are made by an escaped murderer with an ax to grind. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/2 "2018-04-16T18:32:55Z")
I thought it was incriminating financial information. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/3 "2018-04-16T18:35:07Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I thought it was incriminating financial information. They arrested the captain of the guards and he cried like a baby (according to Red). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/4 "2018-04-16T18:45:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I thought it was incriminating financial information. A tad complicated by the fact that all the money was gone. I suppose some bank employees might be shown a picture of Dufresne and recognize him as the “Randall Stephens” who briefly showed up to close his accounts. Without Dufresne’s testimony (and even _with_ it, truth be told), I’m not sure how much of a case could be made against Norton. You’d have to get some of the local businesses to admit that they’d bribed Norton, and I’m not sure Hadley was privy to any of those details, since that would require him getting a cut. Like the feasibility of crawling through a 500-foot sewer pipe and not suffocating, this is the kind of detail best left unanalyzed. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/5 "2018-04-16T19:08:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Like the feasibility of crawling through a 500-foot sewer pipe and not suffocating, this is the kind of detail best left unanalyzed. Why he chose enchilada night I’ll never understand. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/6 "2018-04-16T19:41:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Like the feasibility of crawling through a 500-foot sewer pipe and not suffocating, this is the kind of detail best left unanalyzed. Ahem…it was 500 _yards_. “That’s the length of five football fields…” ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/7 "2018-04-16T19:54:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > A tad complicated by the fact that all the money was gone. I suppose some bank employees might be shown a picture of Dufresne and recognize him as the “Randall Stephens” who briefly showed up to close his accounts. Without Dufresne’s testimony (and even _with_ it, truth be told), I’m not sure how much of a case could be made against Norton. You’d have to get some of the local businesses to admit that they’d bribed Norton, and I’m not sure Hadley was privy to any of those details, since that would require him getting a cut. If memory serves, he sent the entire ledger to the papers, and it wasn’t just bribes, it was money laundering and tax evasion, too. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/8 "2018-04-16T20:11:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > A tad complicated by the fact that all the money was gone. I suppose some bank employees might be shown a picture of Dufresne and recognize him as the “Randall Stephens” who briefly showed up to close his accounts. Without Dufresne’s testimony (and even _with_ it, truth be told), I’m not sure how much of a case could be made against Norton. You’d have to get some of the local businesses to admit that they’d bribed Norton, and I’m not sure Hadley was privy to any of those details, since that would require him getting a cut. I’m not sure why you think it would be hard to make a case, it wasn’t a bank robbery and a shadowy figure running away with a physical bag of cash, it was years of dodgy financial fraud and the guy who knew all the details basically handed the authorities a road map for every part of it. Remember: > [@](#): > > What you hear isn’t half of it. He’s got scams you haven’t even dreamed of. Kickbacks on his kickbacks. There’s a river of dirty money running through this place…I channel it, filter it, funnel it - Stocks, securities, tax-free municipals - I send that money out into the real world and when it comes back…by the time Norton retires, I will have made him a millionaire. Its like doing Capone for tax evasion, its all in the numbers so why do you think they need Dufresne to testify when they already have all the evidence they need right there in bank records, transaction records, etc etc? ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/9 "2018-04-16T20:18:35Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Ahem…it was 500 _yards_. “That’s the length of five football fields…” Andy would never have found enough breathable air in the pipe to crawl that far. Regardless of his tolerance for icky shit. Methane, ammonia, and other sewer gasses, there is a reason why we have OSHA regulations for confined spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/10 "2018-04-16T20:29:14Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > Andy would never have found enough breathable air in the pipe to crawl that far. Regardless of his tolerance for icky shit. Methane, ammonia, and other sewer gasses, there is a reason why we have OSHA regulations for confined spaces. Was just talking about this with friends the other day. So there’s no treatment on the end? The sewage is just dumped into that ditch? ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/11 "2018-04-16T21:04:48Z")
> [@Paintcharge](#): > > Was just talking about this with friends the other day. So there’s no treatment on the end? The sewage is just dumped into that ditch? In 1965, in rural Maine? Not at all surprising. Heck, treating it might be more unlikely at that point. You could maybe retcon the story so the pipe is a combined sewage and drainage culvert, large enough to carry all the rainwater from the yard and roofs as well as the sewage. Seems possible to survive crawling through a 36" pipe that’s mostly air with a couple inches of sewage on the bottom. Though in the movie wasn’t it a giant pouring thunderstorm that night? Hrmm… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/12 "2018-04-16T21:46:18Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Its like doing Capone for tax evasion, its all in the numbers so why do you think they need Dufresne to testify when they already have all the evidence they need right there in bank records, transaction records, etc etc? Well, if you’re going to quote-mine, there’s also: > [@](#): > > Red: I know. I know you’re good, Andy, but all that paper leaves a trail. Now, anybody gets curious, the FBI, IRS, whatever, it’s gonna lead to somebody. > > Andy Dufresne: Well, sure it is, but not to me. And certainly not to the Warden. I could buy that in the months before his prison break, Andy would leave enough bread crumbs to incriminate Norton without disrupting the flow of cash. It’s not explicitly described, of course, which would weaken the ending, so it’s left to our imagination how exactly this would destroy Norton and not just have everybody looking for the fictitious Randall Stephens. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/13 "2018-04-16T22:22:33Z")
> [@SykoSkotty](#): > > Ahem…it was 500 _yards_. “That’s the length of five football fields…” “Just shy of half a mile.” If you consider 500 to be ‘just shy’ of 880. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/14 "2018-04-16T22:22:36Z")
Great movie, but one thing that always bothered me about the movie was that it was set in Maine, but it was always summer. I don’t remember any cold days, or even the mention of snow or cold. Sorry for the hijack, but I didn’t want to start a thread for just that, so was waiting for another SR thread. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/15 "2018-04-16T22:33:50Z")
There is one scene during Andy’s ordeal with the Sisters where he’s walking the yard wearing a jacket and cap, hands in pockets, looking chilled–but not _that_ cold–but yeah, a balmy 40-year stretch of weather in The Pine Tree State. Who’da thunk? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/16 "2018-04-16T23:33:34Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Great movie, but one thing that always bothered me about the movie was that it was set in Maine, but it was always summer. I don’t remember any cold days, or even the mention of snow or cold. {…} The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco . . . err, Maine . . . err, wrong prison break. ☹ \<'Cause, ya know, it’s cold. I know, “Back to the hole!” CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/17 "2018-04-16T23:38:47Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > “Just shy of half a mile.” If you consider 500 to be ‘just shy’ of 880. [“Clearly I gots trouble with the math”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3jfbAcsfX8) ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/18 "2018-04-17T00:11:55Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > How much evidence could Dufresne have put in that envelope he sent to the paper? He didn’t actually witness the greaser’s murder, and the allegations against the warden are made by an escaped murderer with an ax to grind. The books contained all the info needed. Bank account numbers, amounts, dates, who was paying kickbacks…more than enough to get search warrants for his financial info and documents on every prison program and subpoenas for everyone who paid kickbacks. I’m sure that by the time the police came to get the warden, all the people who paid kickbacks had gladly ratted on the warden. The murder? Not so much. They were probably counting on guard rolling on the warden, but he didn’t get the chance. But I’m sure he was seeing some cash from the warden’s scams, so he would be prosecuted for that. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/19 "2018-04-17T00:36:07Z")
Man, I’ve read the story and seen the movie, and I have to say I think the movie is better than the story. The film’s villains like Captain Hadley and Bogs Diamond are _so_ menacing and brilliantly acted, and the same terror is impossible to convey in a story. I’m not saying the story is _bad_, Stephen King is great at world-building and immersion in his stories, but the movie was truly outstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shawshank-redemption-when-they-come-for-the-warden/812527/20 "2018-04-17T02:00:59Z")
Even if they could only get the warden on some minor tax evasion charges - he’s going to wind up in Shawshank on the wrong side of the wire. Even if he only was facing a couple of months, he probably thought he’d better off taking the quick way out.