# Shayna and ElvisL1ves--Christ, here we go again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387 "2015-08-20T22:00:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/61 "2015-08-26T20:43:19Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Was Shayna for Obama? > [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > Yes, she was. [rant] So… where was she when the Affordable Care Act needed support? When the stimulus package was being chopped to bits? When Obama followed through with Bush’s negotiated pullout of Iraq? When financial reform passed by the skin of its teeth? When the most significant climate related policy ever was ordered by President Obama? Or is it all personalities to her? [/rant] > [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > This is a joke post, right? I don’t get into the Pit very often. But I don’t see how **thoughtful people** who wish to combat ignorance could climb aboard the Trump Train. Emphasis added. There’s your problem. Check out the user name of your correspondent. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/62 "2015-08-26T22:33:08Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > [rant] So… where was she when the Affordable Care Act needed support? When the stimulus package was being chopped to bits? When Obama followed through with Bush’s negotiated pullout of Iraq? When financial reform passed by the skin of its teeth? When the most significant climate related policy ever was ordered by President Obama? I was building a movement on how to talk about those very issues with a team of experts, spending untold hours into the night writing and advocating for our project. Must I do everything here for it to have happened? Frankly, I bored of the Dope for a while. Thanks for noticing my absence and caring so much. [The Winning Words Project](http://www.winningwordsproject.com) ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/63 "2015-08-26T22:54:12Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Oh no, I’m mortally wounded that you might not think well of me because I don’t want that [lying](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKe2rBbGGEA), [petulant](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A9CRgFO2mnM#), [arrogant](http://youtu.be/RWoHV0w051s), [incompetent](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=458695), [cold-hearted](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/20/exclusive-hillary-clinton-took-me-through-hell-rape-victim-says.html), [snotty](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rha6Wamfp0) woman to be our next president. Sakes alive whatever shall I do? Guess I’ll have a good cry into my Cheerios then get over it. I suggest you do the same. \*Let’s stand together – men and women alike – and shatter the highest glass ceiling in America. Chip in $1 or more today to become a founding donor to help launch Women for Hillary. Thanks, Hillary\* I’m taking it you didn’t get the email? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/64 "2015-08-26T23:49:58Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Oh no, I’m mortally wounded that you might not think well of me because I don’t want that [lying](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TKe2rBbGGEA), [petulant](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=A9CRgFO2mnM#), [arrogant](http://youtu.be/RWoHV0w051s), [incompetent](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=458695), [cold-hearted](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/20/exclusive-hillary-clinton-took-me-through-hell-rape-victim-says.html), [snotty](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rha6Wamfp0) woman to be our next president. You left off #Trump2016 #MakeAmericaGreatAgain 😛 ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/65 "2015-08-26T23:51:26Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > This is a joke post, right? I don’t get into the Pit very often. But I don’t see how thoughtful people who wish to combat ignorance could climb aboard the Trump Train. Welcome to the Pit, hope you’re wearing rubber boots, it’s been getting deep here of late. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/66 "2015-08-27T00:57:51Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > This is a joke post, right? You can never quite tell sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/67 "2015-08-27T01:18:22Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You left off #Trump2016 #MakeAmericaGreatAgain 😛 You’re new here; I’ll forgive you your ignorance. (Hint: Revisit the OP.) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/68 "2015-08-27T04:22:42Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/69 "2015-08-27T04:42:00Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > I was building a movement on how to talk about those very issues with a team of experts, spending untold hours into the night writing and advocating for our project. Must I do everything here for it to have happened? Frankly, I bored of the Dope for a while. Thanks for noticing my absence and caring so much. > > [The Winning Words Project](http://www.winningwordsproject.com) Well that’s ok then. I hope we agree that ranting about a particular personality one year, sitting on your hands for eight years, then continuing for another year with a rant on the same candidate shows a certain obsessiveness and absence of substance. I’m glad that wasn’t the case. I disagree with your apparent belief that Hillary wouldn’t be good for progressivism --she ran circles around Bernie Sanders with regards to BLM, even inspiring the group to [improve their game](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/08/black-lives-matter-comes-through-plan)– but I’ll leave that aside for the moment. I’m saying that as someone who endorsed Obama in summer 2007 and predicted he would be President (c 2016) in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/70 "2015-08-27T05:31:40Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > … I’m saying that as someone who endorsed Obama in summer 2007 and predicted he would be President (c 2016) in 2006. Which brings up [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=491383)! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/71 "2015-08-27T05:38:32Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Well that’s ok then. I hope we agree that ranting about a particular personality one year, sitting on your hands for eight years, then continuing for another year with a rant on the same candidate shows a certain obsessiveness and absence of substance. I’m glad that wasn’t the case. I’ve been a political consultant for 15 years now and a political writer for five. There isn’t a day that goes by that I’m not actively advocating for something. I’ll probably die screaming about some injustice or another. So yeah. Apology accepted. > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I disagree with your apparent belief that Hillary wouldn’t be good for progressivism --she ran circles around Bernie Sanders with regards to BLM, even inspiring the group to [improve their game](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/08/black-lives-matter-comes-through-plan)– but I’ll leave that aside for the moment. I’m saying that as someone who endorsed Obama in summer 2007 and predicted he would be President (c 2016) in 2006. Did I miss something in that article, because I don’t see anything about Hillary Clinton being their inspiration. In fact, Hillary only proposes/supports two of their objectives where Bernie hits eight of 10. Hillary is so much closer to Republican notions than Progressive, she may as well _be_ a Republican. As someone who has studied political language for years and written about it for the past five, I may be able to spot the right-wing rhetoric on her campaign website better than most, but I assure you, it’s dripping with it. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/72 "2015-08-27T05:50:10Z")
No you didn’t miss it in the article. What happened was there was a viral video of her talking with a Black Lives Matter rep. She urged them to pull together an agenda. [Clinton To Black Lives Matter: ‘You’re Not Going To Change Every Heart’ (VIDEO) - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/clinton-black-lives-matter-nh-videos?wpmm=1&wpisrc=nl_daily202) A few days later they did so. Hillary wasn’t the only one saying this and frankly I don’t know how much credit to give her: arguably it could be none. > [@](#): > > Hillary is so much closer to Republican notions than Progressive, she may as well be a Republican. C’mon. Abortion. Iran agreement. Stimulus. Health Care reform. Climate policy. The lunatic tail is currently wagging the Republican dog: freaking Ronald Reagan would be booted out today for being a squish. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/73 "2015-08-27T05:59:55Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > C’mon. Abortion. Iran agreement. Stimulus. Health Care reform. Climate policy. The lunatic tail is currently wagging the Republican dog: freaking Ronald Reagan would be booted out today for being a squish. I said in comparison to Progressives. She doesn’t hold any true progressive views as far as I can see. Certainly she holds a few _Democratic_ positions, such as those you mentioned. But there’s nothing progressive about them. She’s a dyed-in-the-wool right-leaning centrist with a few left positions at best. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/74 "2015-08-27T06:26:26Z")
This is the very first item in her economic “fights” section: [Quote=Hillary Clinton] 1. **Invest in an economy that works for working Americans** We will make the necessary investments in infrastructure, research, and education to put people to work today and grow our economy for tomorrow. Increased investment will lead to economic growth, that in turn will increase wages and boost bottom lines for both families and American businesses. [/quote] Notice anything? You know what that’s selling, right? It’s Trickle Down in all is glory. Investments that “lead to” economic growth refers to growth in the part of the economy that doesn’t affect middle and working-class people. We wrote about this very thing and why it’s dangerous to use that terminology. It’s almost like she read our article, grabbed the headline but didn’t understand a word of what’s in it. “[4 Reasons You Should Embrace The Language Of An ‘Economy For Everyone’](http://www.winningwordsproject.com/4_reasons_you_must_embrace_the_language_of_an_economy_for_everyone)” And the notion that an improved economy (which we’re really talking about the Wall Street economy) will somehow magically increase wages is straight up Trickle Down garbage. Investments and economic growth and bottom lines – all right-wing language. Do you know anyone who talks about their family’s budget in terms of its bottom line? Of course not, because that’s Wall Street corporate language! Because that how she _thinks_ about these issues. And if that’s how she thinks, that’s how she’d govern. Sorry, Trickle Down has fucked us enough already, I don’t want any more of it. But aren’t we supposed to be complaining about me and ElvisL1ves redux, not having a reasonable conversation about issues? Carry on, my friend. Carry on. P.S. You know who’s talking about an economy for everyone? Bernie Sanders. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/75 "2015-08-27T11:57:59Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Notice anything? You know what that’s selling, right? It’s Trickle Down in all is glory. I suggest you stop quoting the first sentence from Clinton’s website. It makes it clear that you are completely full of shit. If you just used the second sentence, maybe with an ellipsis preceding it, then it appears as though Clinton is advocating trickle-down economics as it’s commonly understood and it wouldn’t be so easy to tell that you are a typical partisan hack who is of no value whatsoever in helping to understand the policy proposals of our politicians. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/76 "2015-08-27T12:27:35Z")
Confident you will die screaming … it’s sort of like the old parable: Hillel I think was asked how often one must pray. His answer was that one must only pray the day before one dies … but since one never knows the day they will die one must pray every day. … You’ll hit the screaming the day before you die the same way! The parallels between you and the worst elements of the GOP, the ones that have hurt their national prospects the most, are striking. The stridency, the shouting at, name-calling and attacking of those who disagree, the “she might as well be a Republican”, and the antipathy and venom to others within the tent … one suspects that your current political job is funded by the GOP! It certainly serves their interests most. No investing in infrastructure, research, and education as a path to creating middle class jobs and of growing the economy is not trickle-down. That statement is either stupid or disingenuous or both. If indeed that was what the the GOP wanted to do then I, and many like me who have been voting Democratic all our lives, would gladly vote for them. Sheesh, you’d say that FDR might have as well been a Republican. If voices and tactics like yours represent the growing movement within the party then put a fork in the party … yeah it’s done. The politics of hate and divisiveness does not serve the Democrats well. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/77 "2015-08-27T13:24:04Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > If voices and tactics like yours represent the growing movement within the party then put a fork in the party … yeah it’s done. The politics of hate and divisiveness does not serve the Democrats well. It doesn’t serve anyone well. Not Democrats, not Republicans, not American, not the rest of the world. But I certainly don’t see the progressive wing of the Democratic Party cutting a swath of destruction like the far-right and Tea Party factions have done to the Republican Party. if we’re sticking a fork in the Democrats, we must be about ready to start a nice broth from the picked-over bones of the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/78 "2015-08-27T13:57:42Z")
Indeed many of the progressive wing are extremely conscious that emulating the far right, as **Shayna** does, would be folly. Thankfully those who spray spittle as a form of political debate are not the growing movement. More, both of the far progressive side and those of us more towards the center, understand about disagreeing without being disagreeable. Those like **Shayna** and **ElvisL1ves** are fortunately still not the norm. Still it does not take too many of them in the room to do harm. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/79 "2015-08-27T14:07:34Z")
Another pronouncement from on high. We peasants are grateful to you for your wisdom. Now fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/80 "2015-08-27T14:12:32Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > I suggest you stop quoting the first sentence from Clinton’s website. It makes it clear that you are completely full of shit. If you just used the second sentence, maybe with an ellipsis preceding it, then it appears as though Clinton is advocating trickle-down economics as it’s commonly understood and it wouldn’t be so easy to tell that you are a typical partisan hack who is of no value whatsoever in helping to understand the policy proposals of our politicians. Iit’s clear you’re yet another one who has no clue how to read or how to comprehend. And if you think I give one scintilla of a crap what you think of me, think again. Now go play with your G.I. Joe’s little boy, I’m not interested in your frothing stupidity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387.md?page=5)