# Shayna and ElvisL1ves--Christ, here we go again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 20, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387 "2015-08-20T22:00:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/81 "2015-08-27T14:48:31Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > This is the very first item in her economic “fights” section: > > [QUOTE=Hillary Clinton] > > 1. Invest in an economy that works for working Americans > > We will make the necessary investments in infrastructure, research, and education to put people to work today and grow our economy for tomorrow. Increased investment will lead to economic growth, that in turn will increase wages and boost bottom lines for both families and American businesses. Notice anything? You know what that’s selling, right? It’s Trickle Down in all is glory. [/QUOTE] No, it isn’t. It’s a proposal for public investment to increase wealth for all. Trickle-down is the notion that skewing tax-policy to further enrich those at the top will result in improved incomes as prospects for all. See the difference: public investment in public infrastructure vs. policies to further enrich those at the top? > [@](#): > > And the notion that an improved economy (which we’re really talking about the Wall Street economy) will somehow magically increase wages is straight up Trickle Down garbage. Except this quote isn’t about Wall Street. > [@](#): > > Investments and economic growth and bottom lines – all right-wing language. Do you know anyone who talks about their family’s budget in terms of its bottom line? Of course not, because that’s Wall Street corporate language! I’m unwilling to cede ‘economic growth’ as a right-wing concept. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/82 "2015-08-27T15:28:04Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > … Now go play with your G.I. Joe’s little boy … Did Shayna just accuse IMd of being a child molester? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/83 "2015-08-27T15:43:55Z")
I didn’t even know GI Joe had kids. Were Duke and Scarlett really knocking boots on the DL after all? I keed, Shayna, I keed. . ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/84 "2015-08-27T15:46:54Z")
Clinton’s positions on immigration and criminal justice reform are progressive by any fair definition. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/85 "2015-08-27T15:50:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > \*Let’s stand together – men and women alike – and shatter the highest glass ceiling in America. Chip in $1 or more today to become a founding donor to help launch Women for Hillary. > > Thanks, > > Hillary\* > > I’m taking it you didn’t get the email? Honestly, from the field put up by both partys I’m starting to think America had some serious BOGO offers on Clown Cannons (That’s you too, Bernie). ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/86 "2015-08-27T16:40:07Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Indeed many of the progressive wing are extremely conscious that emulating the far right, as **Shayna** does, would be folly. Thankfully those who spray spittle as a form of political debate are not the growing movement. More, both of the far progressive side and those of us more towards the center, understand about disagreeing without being disagreeable. Those like **Shayna** and **ElvisL1ves** are fortunately still not the norm. Still it does not take too many of them in the room to do harm. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Another pronouncement from on high. We peasants are grateful to you for your wisdom. > > Now fuck off. > [@Shayna](#): > > Iit’s clear you’re yet another one who has no clue how to read or how to comprehend. And if you think I give one scintilla of a crap what you think of me, think again. Now go play with your G.I. Joe’s little boy, I’m not interested in your frothing stupidity. Wait, is this whole thing a parody thread? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/87 "2015-08-27T16:41:14Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Another pronouncement from on high. We peasants are grateful to you for your wisdom. > > Now fuck off. Fuck off? Now that is clever and insightful! A win that really puts me in my place! 🙂 But no I am not high. If I was I would be believing that there could be a President Sanders and that a President Sanders could actually implement any of his agenda (he’s not high either and knows that without “a revolution” leading to a flip of both houses his agenda would be DOA - “forget about it.”) I do try to stay as reformed as I ever was. **Shayna** at least is motivated by the fact that I am from her perspective on the other side and do not believe that Sanders would be an effective President or general election candidate … in your case we both support Hillary Clinton this cycle. But that does not mean that I cannot, should not, join the calling out of behaviors that hurt what I humbly believe are in the best interests of this country … keeping the GOP from having the Presidency as well as both houses, free to implement a Far Right agenda that would put this country back multiple decades. Supporters like the two of you hurt that goal and again, it only takes a few with bad gas to stink up the place and get a whole bunch of others to leave the tent. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/88 "2015-08-27T17:19:22Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > Wait, is this whole thing a parody thread? Isn’t every Pit thread a parody thread? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/89 "2015-08-27T17:36:45Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I didn’t even know GI Joe had kids. Were Duke and Scarlett really knocking boots on the DL after all? It was Lady Jaye and Flint and I thought I had put all that behind me. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/90 "2015-08-27T17:42:34Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I didn’t even know GI Joe had kids. Were Duke and Scarlett really knocking boots on the DL after all? This is The Pit, right? Because I think that’d be some angry, angry effing indeed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/91 "2015-08-27T18:18:29Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Notice anything? You know what that’s selling, right? It’s Trickle Down in all is glory. Not really, no. The government investing in infrastructure might be the opposite of trickle down. I like Bernie a lot and have some real problems with Hillary. I don’t even have a real problem with calling Hillary center right. But this is just crazy talk. You’ve become the left wing equivalent of a tea partier. Hillary will get my vote next November. I surely don’t want the GOP appointing Supreme Court judges any time in the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/92 "2015-08-27T18:43:09Z")
That’s exactly it. Politics is the art of the possible, and the perfect is the enemy of the good. Clinton is electable (and bulletproof, as we know) and will be a good, though not perfect, president. Sanders is unelectable, so how good a job he’d do is a topic only for daydreaming - but it’s a good bet he wouldn’t be perfect either, being human and all. **DSeid** , nobody elected you Philosopher King. It’s off you must fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/93 "2015-08-27T18:46:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **DSeid** , nobody elected you Philosopher King. It’s off you must fuck. S/he’s got my vote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/94 "2015-08-27T20:02:22Z")
> [@Pashnish\_Ewing](#): > > S/he’s got my vote. I second the nomination. All in favor, say Aye! ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/95 "2015-08-27T20:26:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That’s exactly it. Politics is the art of the possible, and the perfect is the enemy of the good. > > Clinton is electable (and bulletproof, as we know) and will be a good, though not perfect, president. Sanders is unelectable, so how good a job he’d do is a topic only for daydreaming - but it’s a good bet he wouldn’t be perfect either, being human and all. > > **DSeid** , nobody elected you Philosopher King. It’s off you must fuck. So, you are intimidated by his intelligence then? Because that’s what accusations of “Philosopher King” look like. You’re going off the rails Elvis. No offense to DSeid, but it’s not like his points above are particularly novel and I didn’t think he was pretending that they were. More generally if somebody accuses you of losing your cool, wild accusations tend to prove their point. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/96 "2015-08-27T20:26:30Z")
Hmm. **DSeid** wouldn’t be my _first_ choice for Philosopher King, but if the alternatives are limitied to disingenuous ideologues, then pragmatically… Aye! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/97 "2015-08-27T20:30:53Z")
IIRC, Plato said the philosopher king has to live a simple life largely devoid of material pleasures. So…let me be the first to claim **DSeid** ’s stuff. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/98 "2015-08-27T20:39:10Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > You’re new here; I’ll forgive you your ignorance. (Hint: Revisit the OP.) Was it ignorance? Or was it a more biting, commentary about the use of common methods in two different populist movements with some parallel objectives? Clearly it must be ignorance. No one questions the Bern… or expects the Spanish Inquisition. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/99 "2015-08-27T22:56:35Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Hmm. **DSeid** wouldn’t be my _first_ choice for Philosopher King, but if the alternatives are limitied to disingenuous ideologues, then pragmatically… Aye! It’s unanimous. **DSeid** is now officially P-K of this thread. Long live **DSeid!**. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387/100 "2015-08-28T03:23:16Z")
Gosh. I’d like to thank all the people who made this possible. My wife, my dogs, my first grade teacher who reassured my parents that I wasn’t really as feebleminded as they thought … (true story). Sorry **Richard Parker** , my wife has dibs. And who this Off I must fuck? And how do I explain that to my wife? She’s pissed at me half the time already and me fucking somebody named Off I don’t even know is not likely to be taken well. We are _not_ poly. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shayna-and-elvisl1ves-christ-here-we-go-again/728387.md?page=6)