# Shays claims "Home Depot" nuke possible. Really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2006, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658 "2006-09-14T09:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/1 "2006-09-14T09:43:06Z")
In the extraordinarily important (if too short) Ted Koppel program “The Price of Security” that aired around 9-11, Representative Christopher Shays (R - CT) asserted that he had been shown by scientists at a national lab (Los Alamos or somewhere) that someone could build a nuclear weapon (not a radiological or “dirty” bomb, but a nuclear explosive) from parts purchased at Home Depot or Lowes. He strongly implied (but did not state outright) that one could build such a weapon **solely** from such parts, else why bother making such a statement in the first place? After all, to make such a device would probably require screws for example, and screws can of course be purchased from Home Depot, but claiming that someone could make a nuke using _ **some** _ parts from Home Depot is an utterly pointless and ridiculous waste of time. Thus he must have believed that _all_ of the parts necessary could be so purchased. Now, since my most revered icon is Pearl Forrester, as soon as I heard that news I sent my evil minions to Home Depot to purchase their nuclear weapon kit including all the high explosives and plutonium or U-235 I would need to dominate the world. Alas, they reported that they could find no such material! Naturally, I killed them for their incompetence. But now I’m wondering: What could Shays have been thinking? What might the national weapons lab scientists have actually meant? Or was this just more contemptible Republican fear-mongering, as I suspect it was? ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/2 "2006-09-14T09:49:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Or was this just more contemptible Republican fear-mongering, as I suspect it was? Well, if we _conveniently_ leave out the partisan BS, then no. They don’t sell uranium or plutonium at Home Depot. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/3 "2006-09-14T10:05:23Z")
Actually, in _theory_ one _might_ be able to do such a thing. It just depends upon how you want to split hairs (and what kinds of theories of physics you subscribe to). If you know where there’s some ore, you could mine and process it into uranium, and then make it into a nuke with stuff you buy at Home Depot (but ya better have a _lot_ of cash and free time, since you’ll need to make your own machine shop). Maybe if you had an army of folks and lots and lots of money, you could do it that way, but you’d be doing a lot of mining as well, since many of the materials you’d need (like uranium) aren’t sold at Home Depot. The other possibility (and this is even _more_ remote) depends upon how much you want to bend the rules of physics. You see, it relies on cold fusion. Now, there’s _some_ evidence that there _is_ something to cold fusion, just not fusion, and there’s a few theories that you _might_ be able to use cold fusion (whatever it may be) to make nuclear material. In short, there’s really no practical way that you could get what you need from Home Depot to build a nuke. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/4 "2006-09-14T10:06:53Z")
[QUOTE=Eleusis] Well, if we _conveniently_ leave out the partisan BS, then no. [/QUOTE] “No” _what?_ “No” Shays wasn’t fear-mongering? “No” Shays didn’t mean what he said? “No” Shays wasn’t told you could build a nuke that way? Again, “no” _what?_ [QUOTE=Eleusis] They don’t sell uranium or plutonium at Home Depot. [/QUOTE] Thank you. I wouldn’t have known that otherwise without your help. :smack: I repeat my questions: What could Shays have been thinking? What might the national weapons lab scientists have actually meant? Or was this just more contemptible Republican fear-mongering, as I suspect it was? ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/5 "2006-09-14T10:22:55Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Actually, in _theory_ one _might_ be able to do such a thing. It just depends upon how you want to split hairs (and what kinds of theories of physics you subscribe to). If you know where there’s some ore, you could mine and process it into uranium, and then make it into a nuke with stuff you buy at Home Depot (but ya better have a _lot_ of cash and free time, since you’ll need to make your own machine shop). Maybe if you had an army of folks and lots and lots of money, you could do it that way, but you’d be doing a lot of mining as well, since many of the materials you’d need (like uranium) aren’t sold at Home Depot. [/QUOTE] Even assuming the totally absurd notion that you could mine uranium (U-238) and extract the necessary amount of U-235 for such a device, I strongly reject the notion that even with billions of dollars you could find the exotic non-uranium/plutonium materials, machine tools, electronics, high explosives and so forth at Home Depot or Lowes. So even if Shays meant to say that you could buy just the non-uranium/plutonium items at Home Depot, he must have been totally full of shit, no? [QUOTE=Tuckerfan] The other possibility (and this is even _more_ remote) depends upon how much you want to bend the rules of physics. You see, it relies on cold fusion. Now, there’s _some_ evidence that there _is_ something to cold fusion, just not fusion, and there’s a few theories that you _might_ be able to use cold fusion (whatever it may be) to make nuclear material. [/QUOTE] Even assuming that that the extant ideas about cold fusion are viable (which I personally do not accept in the slightest), it is my understanding that cold fusion does not release the neutrons necessary for that task. But even if it did, you can’t buy palladium and the other necessary materials for cold fusion from Home Depot. [QUOTE=Tuckerfan] In short, there’s really no practical way that you could get what you need from Home Depot to build a nuke. [/QUOTE] I hope you realize that I strongly agree with that assessment and did before my OP. However, I still wonder what Shays could have meant and what the scientists could have meant by their claims (assuming Shays wasn’t just lying about that). Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/6 "2006-09-14T10:25:47Z")
very WAG: The scientists talked about a normal bomb, and the Senator went off with that? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/7 "2006-09-14T10:32:42Z")
[QUOTE= ambushed] Even assuming that that the extant ideas about cold fusion are viable (which I personally do not accept in the slightest), [/QUOTE] My understanding is we have done cold fusion (some moion? replacement), but it is endothermic, but is is fusion. It is possible to get radioactive material at Home Depot, Americum is in smoke detectors. I don’t know how fissiable Americum is however. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/8 "2006-09-14T10:40:04Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] Even assuming the totally absurd notion that you could mine uranium (U-238) and extract the necessary amount of U-235 for such a device, I strongly reject the notion that even with billions of dollars you could find the exotic non-uranium/plutonium materials, machine tools, electronics, high explosives and so forth at Home Depot or Lowes. So even if Shays meant to say that you could buy just the non-uranium/plutonium items at Home Depot, he must have been totally full of shit, no? [/quote] Again, it’s how technical you want to get, and how long you want to take. There’s a series of books out that (actually, several, now that I think about it) which tell you how to build your own machine shop out of scrap materials. Other than the books, you can get all the supplies you’d need from Home Depot (of course, buying up aluminum furnature, simply to melt it down to make castings is a bit absurd). The electronics could be cannibalized out of various items that Home Depot sells. Remember, the original bombs were built with nothing more sophisticated than vacuum tubes and sliderules. You can get explosives at Home Depot if you’re willing to buy a lot of chemicals (cleaners, sealers, etc., etc., etc.) and extract the various compounds you’d need from those. Possible? Yes. Practical? Hell no. The best you could hope for is a low-yield weapon, which would probably require a semi to move into position. That’s assuming that you get the thing done before you died of radiation poisoning, since you’d not be able to have all kinds of sophisticated protective gear as they don’t sell that (some of it you could make or improvise, but odds are, you’d get a lethal dose at some point). > [@](#): > > Even assuming that that the extant ideas about cold fusion are viable (which I personally do not accept in the slightest), it is my understanding that cold fusion does not release the neutrons necessary for that task. But even if it did, you can’t buy palladium and the other necessary materials for cold fusion from Home Depot. You can’t walk into Home Depot and buy palladium by itself, no. You _can_, however, buy things made _with_ palladium and extract it from them. > [@](#): > > I hope you realize that I strongly agree with that assessment and did before my OP. However, I still wonder what Shays could have meant and what the scientists could have meant by their claims (assuming Shays wasn’t just lying about that). > > Any ideas? Well, you know what they say, “You can tell if a politician’s lying if his lips are moving.” ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/9 "2006-09-14T10:43:40Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] “No” _what?_ “No” Shays wasn’t fear-mongering? “No” Shays didn’t mean what he said? “No” Shays wasn’t told you could build a nuke that way? Again, “no” _what?_ Thank you. I wouldn’t have known that otherwise without your help. :smack: I repeat my questions: What could Shays have been thinking? What might the national weapons lab scientists have actually meant? Or was this just more contemptible Republican fear-mongering, as I suspect it was? [/QUOTE] No, they don’t allow partisan bullshit in GQ, Einstein. Nor do they sell uranium or plutonium at Home Depot. Sheesh. Are you daft? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/10 "2006-09-14T10:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] In the extraordinarily important (if too short) Ted Koppel program “The Price of Security” that aired around 9-11, Representative Christopher Shays (R - CT) asserted that he had been shown by scientists at a national lab (Los Alamos or somewhere) that someone could build a nuclear weapon (not a radiological or “dirty” bomb, but a nuclear explosive) from parts purchased at Home Depot or Lowes. He strongly implied (but did not state outright) that one could build such a weapon **solely** from such parts, else why bother making such a statement in the first place? Or was this just more contemptible Republican fear-mongering, as I suspect it was? [/QUOTE] **Moderator Note** **ambushed**. This is General Questions. You simply should have asked your question and left off the last sentence, which is not part of a GQ question. It might help if someone can link to a transcript of the show, since we don’t have the actual words used by Shays. **samclem** GQ moderator ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/11 "2006-09-14T10:58:03Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] My understanding is we have done cold fusion (some moion? replacement), but it is endothermic, but is is fusion. [/QUOTE] My understanding is that a few respected workers _claim_ to have produced trivial but genuine cold fusion, but that claim is very hotly(!) disputed by the larger scientific community. Do you have a cite in the peer-reviewed literature that acknowledges that such claims _have_ been accepted by the majority of physicists? I remain _extremely_ skeptical. In any case, I don’t see how that can get you any closer to a nuclear weapon. [QUOTE=kanicbird] It is possible to get radioactive material at Home Depot, Americum is in smoke detectors. I don’t know how fissiable Americum is however. [/QUOTE] I don’t think its fissionable at all. True, if you bought a whole shitload of them, you could certainly make a very dangerous radiological bomb. But given that your average smoke detector only has microcuries of Americium, you’d have to buy a truly ridiculous number of them (hundreds of thousands? Millions?) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/12 "2006-09-14T11:06:39Z")
There’s an MP3 of the show [here](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5784313) , but no transcript that I could find. ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/13 "2006-09-14T11:10:18Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] **Moderator Note** **ambushed**. This is General Questions. You simply should have asked your question and left off the last sentence, which is not part of a GQ question. [/QUOTE] I agree my wording probably doesn’t fit with GQ, but I nevertheless still contend it is an essential part of my OP, since it suggests a possible answer to my other questions that must be considered. After all, I’m trying to find out the reasons he said what he did. However, I do take your point and will be more careful in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/14 "2006-09-14T11:10:20Z")
Well guys, a [Boy Scout](http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html) working for a merit badge, built a breeder reactor using old smoke detectors and batteries. Both of which are available at HD. He did use other stuff which isn’t available from HD. I consider the claim to be BS. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/15 "2006-09-14T11:13:27Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] True, if you bought a whole shitload of them, you could certainly make a very dangerous radiological bomb. But given that your average smoke detector only has microcuries of Americium, you’d have to buy a truly ridiculous number of them (hundreds of thousands? Millions?) [/QUOTE] [Yeah, nobody would ever do that…](http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/radscout.html) ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/16 "2006-09-14T11:13:38Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] I agree my wording probably doesn’t fit with GQ, but I nevertheless still contend it is an essential part of my OP, since it suggests a possible answer to my other questions that must be considered. After all, I’m trying to find out the reasons he said what he did. [/QUOTE] Then maybe next time, consider IMHO or GD? ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/17 "2006-09-14T11:18:25Z")
[QUOTE=Eleusis] No, they don’t allow partisan bullshit in GQ, Einstein. [/QUOTE] Ah, personal abuse. I don’t think they allow _that_ in GQ either. [QUOTE=Eleusis] Nor do they sell uranium or plutonium at Home Depot. [/QUOTE] You’ve already made that point, and I 've already thanked you for your input. [QUOTE=Eleusis] Are you daft? [/QUOTE] Still more personal abuse. Remember, this is GQ. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/18 "2006-09-14T11:19:19Z")
[QUOTE=Eleusis] Then maybe next time, consider IMHO or GD? [/QUOTE] Also, as a “'99er”, you probably should have known that. I’m actually impressed that **camlem** left it here. Not to mention that your choice of thread title belies your “true intention” of partisan politics. Personally, I could give a fuck. I just hate that expression, “Republican Fear Mongering”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/19 "2006-09-14T11:23:19Z")
[QUOTE=ambushed] personal abuse [/QUOTE] Fine, I’m sorry I called you Einstein and questioned whether or not you were trying to be funny. FTR, I am not, nor have I ever been a “Republican”. I hate both parties equally. Yes, I’m a libertarian (note the small “l”) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658/20 "2006-09-14T11:33:29Z")
**Moderator steps in** Don’t MAKE me turn this thread around. 🙂 Let’s both stop the arguing and get back on track. **samclem** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shays-claims-home-depot-nuke-possible-really/372658.md?page=2)