# “She’s your daughter. Not your date” anti-incest billboards OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 23, 2016, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648 "2016-07-23T02:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/61 "2016-07-24T18:46:39Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And conversely, wording like this seems to me to add an unnecessary overtone of creepiness to every father and daughter who have ever gone out and done something innocent together and called it a “date.” Many of us don’t consider that creepiness unnecessary and find something rather disturbing about a grown man describing anything he would do with his daughter by the same terms he presumably used when finding his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/62 "2016-07-24T19:11:34Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Many of us don’t consider that creepiness unnecessary and find something rather disturbing about a grown man describing anything he would do with his daughter by the same terms he presumably used when finding his wife. Actually, I’d personally feel a little creepy about using the word that way myself, for just that reason. But people do legitimately use the word “date” to refer to non-sexual, non-romantic get-togethers. See #4 and 5 on Wikipedia’s list of meanings for the word “date”: [QUOTE=Wikipedia] Date, a social activity which may be associated with: - Dating, a form of courtship, which may include any social activity undertaken by, typically, two persons with the aim of assessing each other’s suitability as a partner - Double date, a social date in which two couples participate - Group date, a modern pattern for dating wherein a group of single or currently dating men and a group of single or currently dating women organise a night out, with the hope of forming romantic partnerships - Meeting over a meal (e.g., “breakfast date”, “brunch date”, “coffee date”, “dinner date”, “drinks date”, “lunch date”) or for a planned activity (e.g, “bowling date”, “golf date”, “ski date”, “tennis date”), for social and/or business reasons - Play date, an arranged appointment for children to get together for a few hours or even a few day to enjoy each others company [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/63 "2016-07-24T20:00:58Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > But you bring up a good point. I’ve known some cops who had pretty heinous stories about men who raped their daughters. I don’t recall any of them taking their victim out on a “date.” What, exactly, is the basis for this billboard? Does it actually reflect the way child rapists treat their children? There can definitely be an emotional component to incest. It may be part of the grooming process to gain the victim’s trust. My adopted father routinely took me out for movies and dinner, said and did ‘‘romantic’’ things to convince me how much I meant to him, and I was routinely mistaken for his girlfriend or wife. He said things like, I was the only one who understood him, and he wished he married me instead of my mother. I was a young teen who looked much older than my age so the general public reaction was, ‘‘Oh, you’re his daughter? I thought he just liked younger women.’’ Both were true. It’s just an awareness raising billboard. Would you be equally creeped out by something that said, ''Don’t hit your girlfriend?" or whatever? I think people just don’t want to think about how routinely this stuff happens to children. It should disturb you. You should be more disturbed by the reason the billboard exists than the billboard itself. Destroy the culture that allows the exploitation of children to happen and you’ll never have to look at another goddamn billboard again. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2016, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/64 "2016-07-24T20:17:05Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I guess I’m in a minority here because I didn’t see it as accusing ME of incest and I assumed the idea of it was more of a veiled way of letting children know this isn’t okay (despite being told otherwise by their aggressors). > > I’m not of a mind that it’s the best thing ever and we need them on every street corner but some of the reactions here seem a bit extreme to me. This is how I feel, too. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/65 "2016-07-25T19:50:12Z")
> [@Chihuahua](#): > > So then what does that make a “Daddy Daughter Dance?” That’s what I thought this thread would be about, based on the title – that someone was angrily protesting the fucked-uppedness (one p? ;)) of purity balls and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/66 "2016-07-25T20:19:50Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Actually, I’d personally feel a little creepy about using the word that way myself, for just that reason. But people do legitimately use the word “date” to refer to non-sexual, non-romantic get-togethers. See #4 and 5 on Wikipedia’s list of meanings for the word “date”: One of the downsides is definitely to expand vocabulary policing into making it ‘creepy’ for someone to talk about eg. father daughter date, which is not creepy at all if your mind isn’t in the gutter. That alone isn’t a huge deal. I wouldn’t use that term myself because I know a lot people _are_ actively looking to be ‘disturbed’, especially by male behavior. The whole thing, including the core issue of how to help victims of abuse, is a balance. I know a lot of people have trouble with that concept. ‘If only one case were prevented… what’s the possible downside?’ The downside is what I’ve seen that I believe, based on my own experience I doubt there is any real way to ‘cite facts’ in such a case, a tendency to exaggerate various problems which can have negative effects if the exaggeration is big enough and the problem small enough. To take a perhaps extreme but real example, there’s no actual evidence that ritualized sexual abuse of children at pre-schools ever happened anywhere. But there was a wave of celebrated cases, people wrongly convicted, etc. Incest and child sexual abuse in general definitely happen, but the same potential exists. Sowing comprehensive distrust in society, even if against men, is not cost free. For people who can acknowledge that point rather than completely blow it off, there’s a useful conversation to be had about what the balance is. Those who act as if there isn’t any downside are misguided IMO. I don’t take the bill board as a personal accusation against me. But IMO the approach of that billboard is very non-optimal. If the proposed measure was part of age appropriate awareness raising of kids as part of education, then maybe, depends on what exactly. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/67 "2016-07-25T20:20:11Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The upside is if the find out another child, one of their friends or acquaintances is being abused, they are more likely to tell you or another authority figure. They also better prepared in general to deal with avoiding bad people and bad situations if they know what’s out there and likely to hurt them. Okay, that’s a fair point. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/68 "2016-07-25T21:09:27Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > One of the downsides is definitely to expand vocabulary policing into making it ‘creepy’ for someone to talk about eg. father daughter date, which is not creepy at all if your mind isn’t in the gutter. That alone isn’t a huge deal. I wouldn’t use that term myself because I know a lot people _are_ actively looking to be ‘disturbed’, especially by male behavior. > > The whole thing, including the core issue of how to help victims of abuse, is a balance. I know a lot of people have trouble with that concept. ‘If only one case were prevented… what’s the possible downside?’ The downside is what I’ve seen that I believe, based on my own experience I doubt there is any real way to ‘cite facts’ in such a case, a tendency to exaggerate various problems which can have negative effects if the exaggeration is big enough and the problem small enough. To take a perhaps extreme but real example, there’s no actual evidence that ritualized sexual abuse of children at pre-schools ever happened anywhere. But there was a wave of celebrated cases, people wrongly convicted, etc. Incest and child sexual abuse in general definitely happen, but the same potential exists. > > Sowing comprehensive distrust in society, even if against men, is not cost free. For people who can acknowledge that point rather than completely blow it off, there’s a useful conversation to be had about what the balance is. Those who act as if there isn’t any downside are misguided IMO. > > I don’t take the bill board as a personal accusation against me. But IMO the approach of that billboard is very non-optimal. If the proposed measure was part of age appropriate awareness raising of kids as part of education, then maybe, depends on what exactly. Sure the potential for exaggeration always exists, but we’re talking about a pervasive cultural problem comparable to, say, domestic violence in its commonality, not weird paranoid delusions about Satanic ritual abuse. In my experience rape and sexual abuse is an issue for which people dramatically underestimate the prevalence. The state of Michigan where I live is the 3rd biggest state for sex trafficking nationwide and I live near one of the highest trafficked corridors in the world (U. S. to Canada.) When victims manage to escape here, they are rarely even pursued by their captors because they are easy commodities to replace. The most recent FBI report published for Michigan estimates 60% of Michigan women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime, from unwanted touching to forcible rape, and 20% are raped, the majority before the age of 22. Research by the sort of people studying these things indicates time and again that merely being a teen girl is a dangerous situation in the U.S. (being a young boy isn’t wonderful either but we have all sorts of issues affecting our ability to get accurate data on the sexual abuse of boys and men, including the profound stigma and limited resources for male survivors.) The billboard’s phrasing hit me particularly hard given my own background and how fervently I would have liked someone to club my father over the head with exactly that phrase, but I doubt it would have changed anything in my own behavior or my adopted father’s because he was a complete sociopath and I was limited in exit strategies at the time. I’m not saying the billboard is a stroke of genius or anything. But look at the world you live in and the heinous things happening in your own neighborhood and try to gain a little perspective. It’s like complaining about homeless people bringing down the trendy areas when poverty is a deeply problematic social issue robbing people of safety and dignity. As a grant writer for sexual assault & DV Prevention Education programs I am particularly interested in what programming models are effective at preventing abuse. I do know that a current evidence based model for preventing domestic violence and sexual assault is bystander intervention. It’s an approach that acknowledges you can’t talk rapists or abusers out of abuse, nor can you place the onus of prevention on the victim, but rather you can appeal to the decent majority of folks who both find such behavior abhorrent and are in a position of power to intervene. Research on this model is most promising. Mere awareness raising in, say, schools, is generally not effective at preventing abuse, but it has been indicated to mitigate the damage to the victim when abuse does occur and enhance the likelihood of reporting the incident, finding resources and recovering with less shame and self blame. IOW, the daughter being dated might potentially see that billboard and reserve a little more dignity for herself in the aftermath, or acknowledge the problem sooner, or something to that effect. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/69 "2016-07-25T21:57:09Z")
It has been nagging at me what this slogan kept reminding me of, and I just realized… with Jack Nicholson’s help, we can figure out the truth before Escobar gets here. “She’s my daughter! [slap] She’s my date! [slap] She’s my daughter and my date!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wnrdetFAo1o/maxresdefault.jpg "My Sister, My Daughter - Chinatown (6/9) Movie CLIP (1974) HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnrdetFAo1o) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/70 "2016-07-26T13:50:29Z")
[quote=“Riemann, post:69, topic:760648”] It has been nagging at me what this slogan kept reminding me of, and I just realized… with Jack Nicholson’s help, we can figure out the truth before Escobar gets here. “She’s my daughter! [slap] She’s my date! [slap] She’s my daughter and my date!” [/QUOTE] Um, post [33](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19500368&postcount=33). Didn't have the Youtube link, though. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/71 "2016-07-26T17:34:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m going with “not okay” on this one. Don’t get me wrong: I’m very firmly on the “Don’t do it” side of the “Should you rape your children?” debate. But if you’re the sort of person who looks at their own kid and thinks, “Yeah, I’m gonna get a piece of that,” I don’t think a fuckin’ _billboard_ is going to drive home the point of how wrong it is. If they haven’t gotten the message yet, they’re not ever going to get it. > > Also, the slogan is just creepy as fuck, and not in the way they intended. “She’s your daughter, not your date,” implies that it’s okay to force yourself on an unwilling teenager/adolescent, just so long as you’re not kin. Child molestation is unlike dating for a whole lot of reasons that are entirely unrelated to your family tree. That’s a good point, so how about billboards addressed to the kids, the victims. Tell them something like “It not okay to make love to your parents”, or something more graphic, and encourage them to contact the authorities? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/72 "2016-07-26T18:01:45Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > _It’s an easy mistake, that we’ve all surely made: > Getting one’s daughter confused with one’s date > But before you go further than an innocent peck: > Incest is bad! So please, double-check! > Burma-Shave_ Don’t blame him. He’s spent too much time on Sequential Threads. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/73 "2016-07-26T18:13:17Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Um, post [33](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19500368&postcount=33). Didn’t have the Youtube link, though. oops! missed it, sorry ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/74 "2016-07-27T02:36:59Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > That’s a good point, so how about billboards addressed to the kids, the victims. Tell them something like “It not okay to make love to your parents”, or something more graphic, and encourage them to contact the authorities? I think it would be highly damaging to place the onus of responsibility on the victim that way, which is probably why the billboard is phrased the way it is. It tells kids what’s happening is not okay without implying the child should be doing something to stop it. I realize that seems counterintuitive - ‘‘kids should tell’’ being the default common sense response - but the situation is usually quite a lot more complex than that. These children are emotional hostages in the very least, and usually have good reasons for not telling, maybe they need to protect themselves from a worse fate. And trauma is very complex. In the aftermath of abuse, it’s common for the victim to blame him or herself for not doing more to stop the abuse, and it’s common for loved ones of the victim to blame the victim for not doing more. A billboard like the one you describe would only reinforce that self-blame and would likely compound the trauma. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/75 "2016-07-27T02:58:59Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > And conversely, wording like this seems to me to add an unnecessary overtone of creepiness to every father and daughter who have ever gone out and done something innocent together and called it a “date.” Yes, this. I know a lot of great fathers who have taken their daughters to dances, taken them out to ice cream. Basically non-sexual dates. The guys that this billboard is directed at are not ‘dating’ their daughters. Bringing awareness to incest is a good idea. However I don’t know if this is the way to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/76 "2016-07-27T04:35:35Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I think it would be highly damaging to place the onus of responsibility on the victim that way, which is probably why the billboard is phrased the way it is. It tells kids what’s happening is not okay without implying the child should be doing something to stop it. \*It’s not like our style to put the burden on the victim, but if your dad grabs your privates, we think you should kick him (Just saying, is all) Burma-Shave > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Well, if your daughter knows where you keep the guns and where you keep the keys to the gun safe… If your dad, when he’s drunk, likes to “play” in your bed No jury will convict you if you shoot him in the head (He had it coming) Burma-Shave\* ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/77 "2016-07-27T04:58:45Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > \*It’s not like our style to put the burden on the victim, > but if your dad grabs your privates, we think you should kick him > (Just saying, is all) > Burma-Shave You’re going to send us all straight to hell. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/78 "2016-07-27T06:24:37Z")
_She’s your date, not your daughter, so you don’t get to do her, until dinner you have bought her! (nice tip too!) Burma-Shave_ ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/79 "2016-07-27T07:02:45Z")
The more I think about this the more I really don’t understand what the phrasing of the billboard is driving at. It made perfect sense to me at first, but trying to think outside of that experience, it seems like it would be really easy to interpret the phrasing as an attack on people who innocently go on dates with their daughters. I think my discomfort with the idea of daddy-daughter ‘‘dates’’ is more based on my own experience and maybe it should be an innocent thing. I now understand why people might take it more personally. I’m also trying to work out what sort of billboard _would_ be effective at preventing incest or helping incest victims. I got nothin’. Maybe something pointing to red flags for others to look for, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648/80 "2016-07-27T07:09:25Z")
Oh. Relevant bit of info we all seem to be missing here. I looked up the actual billboard. ‘‘She’s your daughter, not your date’’ is not the [full text of the billboard](https://sli.mg/veuwer3966.jpg). It says, ‘‘ **Getting drunk is never an excuse.** She’s your daughter, not your date.’’ That’s quite a different message, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-s-your-daughter-not-your-date-anti-incest-billboards-ok/760648.md?page=5)