# She wanted a White child from a Sperm Bank **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 1, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120 "2014-10-01T19:30:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/241 "2014-10-05T21:23:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Most things depend on their effect, not on the actual action. The measure of harm to a victim depends on the victim. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > My brother in law was injured in a motorcycle accident and got a settlement. It was based on years worth of income lost. Since he had cancer at the time, the lawyer didn’t disclose there was a good chance that lost income from him wouldn’t be the normal actuarial tables. Not Judge Judy, but an actual court of law. > > When I divorced my first husband, the settlement I got was not based on some standard formula - it was based on our circumstances, including choices he made in the months leading up to the divorce that left me with a financial burden. (There are standard formulas for things like child support and alimony - but even they are based on circumstances - a six figure a year lawyer will pay more in child support than a guy who is the assistant manager at McDonalds.) Again, not Judge Judy, but an actual court. > > I’ve been involved in dozens of cases at work - every decision and settlement has had circumstances factored in. Let’s say that she was a prominent member of a white supremacist organization prior to having a brown baby, making a six-figure salary and in line to be the next president. She has a brown baby due to the sperm bank’s mistake. She’s subsequently fired from her job and shamed by her community. Do you really think the courts would award her an amount equal to her lost income? Are you comfortable with this idea? ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/242 "2014-10-05T22:01:27Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Another scenario just played out in my head. > > A white woman meets a guy. He looks white. She asks if he’s white anyway–because she’s a white supremacist and racial purity matters to her. He tells her that he’s as white as snow. Satisfied by this answer, she has sex with him. Nine months later, she births a brown baby. Turns out the man was doing the Imitation of Life thing and lied about having a black mother. > > Is she entitled to $50,000 in damages from him? If they had a signed contract, absolutely. The couple and the sperm bank had a signed contract I presume, that included the identification number of the sperm specimen to be provided to them, chosen because the donor was white. They did not fully meet the terms of said contract. Same could happen in your scenario. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/243 "2014-10-05T22:22:40Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I don’t understand the whole notion some people seem to have that since the town is intolerant regarding certain groups, and the woman was okay living there before she knew her child was biracial, that she was somehow endorsing the intolerance. Endorsement is perhaps too strong. It was certainly tacit approval given there is evidence she knew about it and didn’t seem to care. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Or that made her partially culpable for the impact of the lab’s royal fuck-up. No, people have said the the intolerance of the town she choose and lived in willingly is not the fault of the sperm bank. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Her duty as a decent person is to stand up to bigotry when she sees it and to raise her child with decent values. But she didn’t do that. She actively “suppressed” her homosexuality in front of her family. Which is her right to do. However, you can’t then turn around and say you were blindsided by the cruelty of the environment when your circumstances change. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > If she lived in an area ill-equipped to deal with certain disabilities, and negligence by the hospital caused that disability in her child, would we point out that she knew that her area couldn’t support such a disability, so quit bitching? Physical disabilities are not the same as being of a minority race. Equating the two is stupid in the eyes of most people with common sense and (luckily) in the eyes of the law. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > That’s because wrongful birth is the legal term you use for this. IANAL, but my understanding is that this - legally - is wrongful birth and not malpractice. Though the lawyer could throw all sorts of legal mumbo jumbo on the wall to see what happens. This is incorrect. She could have sued for any number of reasons including wrongful birth. She choose that one, and choose to bolster her claims on damages brought about by having a biracial daughter. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > If the kid were white, people wouldn’t make comments on the mismatched race. This is no mismatched race. The kid is half White and the biological offspring of the mother. > [@Stratocaster](#): > > Two lesbians walking around with a white kid - it is assumed by strangers - as has been mentioned previously in this thread by the child of such a couple - that the two lesbians are friends or sisters - not a romantic couple. Which even if I grant, the race of the child has no bearing on anything beyond people judging a White woman for procreating with a Black person. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/244 "2014-10-05T22:34:49Z")
> [@EmAnJ](#): > > Just want to point out that you’re mis-quoting; I never said this. My sincere apologies. > [@EmAnJ](#): > > It’s been pointed out in this thread that the $50,000 was a number chosen only to file suit in the appropriate courts by meeting the minimum threshold. The actual damages will be determined later. Right, which is why I have repeatedly said $50k+. How exactly does that HELP your side if she wants a minimum of $50k? > [@Dangerosa](#): > > There is another thing we are not talking about here, perhaps because we don’t want to believe the world to be this nasty - but we know it is. The assumption people make looking at this woman with her daughter is that she had sex with a black man. And while all right thinking people believe that to be a non issue - the reality is the world is not filled with right thinking people and there are a lot of people whose racial buttons that REALLY pushes. That may be the case, but the law, for good reason does not recognize or give weight to such prejudices. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > Most things depend on their effect, not on the actual action. The measure of harm to a victim depends on the victim. Generally, but in this case that is wrong for number of reasons including the fact that the law doesn’t cater to bigots, and because a defendant isn’t usually punished for circumstantial voluntary actions the plaintiff takes/took that aggravate his or her injury. > [@jsgoddess](#): > > What might be an easy way to think of it: say an employment lawsuit garners lost wages. Whose wages determine what has been “lost”? The plaintiff’s wages. Someone making minimum wage and someone making a million dollars a week have different lost wages. To an extent. However, we are not talking about real losses, but rather speculative damages the law generally doesn’t recognize. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/245 "2014-10-06T01:35:39Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Correct, but what is the cost of raising a Black child above a beyond the cost of raising any other child? The cost of moving to a community that better represents the cultural/racial mix of the family living in it. The cost of the emotional baggage that the child will carry with it because a business doesn’t have basic checks and balances. What would be nice if there was compensation for it that allows the mom to move to a community where the child blends into a school instead of being the only black kid there. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/246 "2014-10-06T01:43:25Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > And you are still doing the thing that I pointed out - you are assuming that as a white person having something to do with a black person - in this case my boyfriend - I haven’t had my own experience of racism - unique to your experience as a black woman. I’m assuming nothing of the sort. I just find it weird and obnoxious that you find it necessary to remind me–a black person–that white people are so repelled by black people that their hate can rub onto anyone who is affiliated with a black person. No. shit. sherlock. You’re not opening anyone’s eyes with these newsflashes. Next thing you know, you’re going to tell me white people have been called nigger lover for befriending black people, and I will have to fall out my chair, mouth agape. We get it. You’re trying to convince us to pity a white couple who has to suffer the indignity of having their life dirtied by black stigma. Even though the year is 2014 and we have a well-adjusted biracial president raised by white grandparents who had this child practically foisted upon them, and biracial kids are everywhere. Even though their daughter looks lighter than most Italians. Even though they are lesbians using IVF to create a family. I’m not buying this sob story, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/247 "2014-10-06T03:03:26Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > But the court will be asked to judge whether this woman has been harmed by having a black kid rather than a white kid who never existed. It’s like asking you whether you would be better off with a white son versus the Asian son that you have. > > Do you really think you’d be able to show that? Yes, I think she can show that her child will be harmed living in a 98% white community. > [@monstro](#): > > I don’t think I’d be able to show that my life would be better as a white person. Or a man. Or any other “privileged” identity. > > Now that everyone has seen how cute the little girl is, the mother may get a ton of donations. Donations that might end up amounting to more than $50,000. She may also get offers of friendship and support from the black community in the area. Do you think any of that will be factored into the assessment of whether her life has been damaged? Do you think it should matter? There is no black community in her area. That’s the point. She might as well be living in Alaska. Would you want to be the only black kid in school? And if she eventually gets into a more normal mix of society is she going to be told she’s not black enough by African American kids? She’ll be culturally clueless. If I were the mother I’d move to Akron which is 20 minutes away by car and a lot closer to where her daughter would benefit from socially. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/248 "2014-10-06T03:54:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The cost of moving to a community that better represents the cultural/racial mix of the family living in it. One, why is that _necessary_ given the actual incidents she has alleged? Two, how is this move going to costs $50k+? Why is it the fault of the sperm bank because she lives in a crappy area? > [@Magiver](#): > > What would be nice if there was compensation for it that allows the mom to move to a community where the child blends into a school instead of being the only black kid there. Sure, it would also be nice if she didn’t have a mom that considered her birth “wrongful” and didn’t think her daughter’s racial makeup damaged her. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/249 "2014-10-06T04:20:17Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > One, why is that _necessary_ given the actual incidents she has alleged? Two, how is this move going to costs $50k+? Why is it the fault of the sperm bank because she lives in a crappy area? The fault of the sperm bank is a given. Of this there is no dispute. She doesn’t live in a crappy area. She lives in an area that does not fully benefit her child. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Sure, it would also be nice if she didn’t have a mom that considered her birth “wrongful” and didn’t think her daughter’s racial makeup damaged her. She doesn’t have a mom who considered her birth wrongful. That’s your personal prejudice projected on her. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/250 "2014-10-06T06:21:47Z")
If a sperm bank doesn’t deliver what the customer ordered, it should be held accountable. If a sperm bank represents itself to provide donors who are more likely to have a particular DNA profile, it’s responsible to deliver that. Short people, dumb people, fat people…they might all produce kids who are cute as bugs, and they themselves may well be as deserving as anyone else to not suffer discrimination. But if a sperm bank represents a donor to be tall, intelligent and thin, then by golly, a woman who specs out tall, intelligent and thin as the donor in an effort to maximize her kid getting those genes oughtta be delivered semen from such a donor. And if the sperm instead comes from a short, dumb, fat donor, the sperm bank has misrepresented its product and regardless of how spectacularly amazing the urchin is, a mother should be able to recover damages from misrepresentation. Sperm banks are not a contract to have a baby. They are a contract to get sperm from donors who represent certain phenotypic outcomes in the hope that the offspring will have a better chance to also have those outcomes. Sperm banks make money by providing those donor profiles, and they would lose business if they just tossed all the sperm together. Every woman is entitled to choose partners completely arbitrarily wrt to characteristics. I don’t think the mother should be made to defend why she likes tall, smart and thin guys… IMHO, of course. Well…not really that humble, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![dude77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@dude77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude77)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/251 "2014-10-06T08:06:04Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Yes, you should. Are you really this fucking dense? If you live in a town that literally makes it impossible for a group of people who make of 14% or so of this country to thrive, then you should fucking move. If the people in your town make it impossible for a biracial child to grow up without being abused and denigrated, then you should move. You should move even if you “only first met a Black person when you went to college”. You should move even if you would never Black people differently. You live in a toxic environment, and there is almost no way to avoid being poisoned by it. who are you to say that she’s in a toxic environment or that they’re being ‘poisoned’ … she seems like a regular person from seeing her interviews … people could very well be functioning just fine and normally in that town … there are a lot of mostly white or mostly black towns out there … are you saying these places are ‘poisonous’ or ‘toxic’ to live in ? … you think because you disagree with someone’s point of view, you automatically must cut them off and banish them from your life ? … if I did that, I’d have to get rid of my whole family … hell, a lot of families would be dissolved … she was fine there because she got along with others in her town … but now it may become a problem with her biracial kid for which she did not ask for … the sperm bank is at fault for this and I don’t see any problem with them helping her to relocate somewhere else … what the settlement should be is another question … > [@brickbacon](#): > > And if you sued alleging you were damaged because you ended up with an Asian looking kid, then I would say you are acting like a racist ass. This is really NOT that difficult a concept despite people wanting to make a million excuses. If you think your biological child has damaged you solely because of their skin color, you are acting like a racist. If you allege wrongful birth because you kid is the “wrong” race, you are acting like a racist. Is this really that hard to grasp, or are have we just decided anything short of lynching is no longer racist? there’s nothing ‘racist’ about that … that word, quite frankly, is becoming a caricature in many instances because it’s being used for things for which it does not apply … and this is one of them … is every single white family who wishes to have kids of their likeness ‘racist’ … how about black families who wish to have black offspring or asians who wish to have asain offspring … the indian girl here who says she wants an indian kid … you think she’s the only person in the world who has this desire ? … you’re gonna be pissed off at a lot of people ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/252 "2014-10-06T12:48:26Z")
> [@dude77](#): > > she was fine there because she got along with others in her town … but now it may become a problem with her biracial kid for which she did not ask for … **the sperm bank is at fault for this** … The sperm bank is not at fault for racism and cultural insensitivity. This is why I think her lawsuit will fail. She’s attempting to hold the sperm bank responsible for other people’s attitudes. If her town is full of racist twats, here’s a thought. Why not hold the twats responsible? Because that would mean she’d have to see racism as being something other than an intractable fact of life, rather than a set of attitudes and beliefs that can be changed given enough time? Like homophobia? In an ideal world, having brownish skin and coily hair would be as value neutral as having white skin and straight hair. We’d look at the mother and child and simply see a mother and child, nothing shameful or unusual or dark and dirty. The traits we’re talking about aren’t defects, flaws, or handicaps. The girl is only black because of the one-drop rule and ridiculous standards of racial purity that continue to define whiteness in America. Judging by her appearance, I’d be surprised if the toddler was more than 25% African descent. Which makes all the touchiness and squeamishness about her appearance all the more telling. The bogeyman of being white and having a black child–even if that black child looks like a white person–was satirized by Mark Twain for Christ’s sake. And here we are in 2014, still dealing with this bogeyman and acting like there is a valid reason for assigning value to a person’s racial identity. Fascinating! You can’t make this stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/253 "2014-10-06T12:48:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The fault of the sperm bank is a given. Of this there is no dispute. She doesn’t live in a crappy area. She lives in an area that does not fully benefit her child. You conveniently ignored my other questions. Additionally, while it’s pretty much a given the sperm bank is responsible for giving her the wrong sperm, WHY are they responsible for her choice of town she lives in, or the comments of strangers? And how expensive a move must this company underwrite? If she desires to move to some tolerant European country, does the sperm bank need to pay for all of that and the ancillary costs like immigration lawyers, etc.? Does the bank need to pay for her family to move too? Where does it end? > [@Magiver](#): > > She doesn’t have a mom who considered her birth wrongful. That’s your personal prejudice projected on her. Of course she does. She literally sued for that reason. Once again, she could have sued and received damages on a variety of grounds. Her and her lawyer chose that one. > [@dude77](#): > > who are you to say that she’s in a toxic environment or that they’re being ‘poisoned’ … she seems like a regular person from seeing her interviews … people could very well be functioning just fine and normally in that town … there are a lot of mostly white or mostly black towns out there … are you saying these places are ‘poisonous’ or ‘toxic’ to live in ? … Please learn to use periods correctly. Second, I am not alleging her town is toxic; she is. Read the complaint. She is saying it’s so bad that she has to move. Toxic was my wording, but the sentiment and the broad characterization was hers. > [@dude77](#): > > you think because you disagree with someone’s point of view, you automatically must cut them off and banish them from your life ? … if I did that, I’d have to get rid of my whole family … hell, a lot of families would be dissolved … Yes, I think if your family fundamentally disagrees with who you are to a point they damage you and your offspring, you should probably cut them off. We are not talking about disagreeing on politics or which team to root for. We are talking about creating a deleterious environment filled with prejudice such that she feels her daughter won’t get a fair shot. If you don’t cut of your family for those reasons, then you need to own the consequences, and not sue people based on their prejudices. > [@dude77](#): > > she was fine there because she got along with others in her town … but now it may become a problem with her biracial kid for which she did not ask for … the sperm bank is at fault for this and I don’t see any problem with them helping her to relocate somewhere else … what the settlement should be is another question … Once again, how does that move cost $50k+? Even if I accept all of that, and the judge likely won’t based on precedent, why is it gonna cost in excess of $50k? > [@dude77](#): > > there’s nothing ‘racist’ about that … that word, quite frankly, is becoming a caricature in many instances because it’s being used for things for which it does not apply … and this is one of them … is every single white family who wishes to have kids of their likeness ‘racist’ … how about black families who wish to have black offspring or asians who wish to have asain offspring … the indian girl here who says she wants an indian kid … you think she’s the only person in the world who has this desire ? … you’re gonna be pissed off at a lot of people I am not pissed off at anyone. The issue here is you forget that there are degrees to racism just like there are to any other thing. Is it not homophobic if I don’t want to shower with a gay guy just because gay people have experienced worse? This is quite literally racist. She is saying she is damaged by her daughter’s blackness. Does it mean she is the worst person ever? No. As I said before, her opinions are not even that uncommon. That doesn’t change the fact that she is wronged by the sperm bank, but it also doesn’t make her a less culpable for her opinions and attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/254 "2014-10-06T13:08:53Z")
Brickbaker, if she’s suing for $50k because that’s the minimum she can sue for, that doesn’t actually mean she’s asking for or expecting $50k+. She could well be expecting significantly less than that. The figure is a red herring. Those arguing against her getting any compenstion, does that mean you think that users of sperm banks should just be able to send out whatever they want? That even if you pay for high motility sperm, and get low motility, sucks to be you - you got some sperm, what more do you want? Because that is really what the issue is here: she paid for one service and got another. If the sperm bank only has to pay back the original fee then there’s absolutely nothing stopping them from doing it again. There should be some financial incentive for them not to do so. The race aspect does make it more complicated, but it’s not like when two parents have a mixed-race child because one of them is mixed-race or black themselves. This kid is going to be raised by two white parents with entirely white families and that can be really hard on the kid. WRT adoption, these days they don’t generally allow that without checking that the kid is going to be living somewhere they meet other people who are not white. So all the mother’s asking for, in asking for help to relocate, is help to do what she would have needed to do had she chosen to adopt a mixed-race child. That’s not a choice she made or budgeted for and the only reason she has to do it is because of the clinic’s fuck-up. Which means of course she wouldn’t be entitled to much money if she lived in an area that as more mixed. I wouldn’t if it happened to me, for example. But I’d still want the clinic to have some sort of financial reason not to do it again because that’s the only thing that would stop them, even if that meant me not getting the money but them paying a fine or something; fines don’t seem to be an option here. Bad publicity would also help. My internet connection isn’t opening any links from this page; which clinic was it? I would certainly be deterred from ever using them if I knew who they were. I hope it’s not the clinic we’re using. Do you guys, the ones who are disagreeing, not think the clinic should have to pay anything at all? If they should, how much and why? If they shouldn’t, that really does mean that clinics would have a precedent set for sending out any old sperm, even sperm that is less likely to result in pregnancy, and that’d be shit. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/255 "2014-10-06T13:23:05Z")
Regarding the plaintiff’s desire to move. Even if the couple didn’t have a black child, they would have plenty motivation to move because, duh, they are lesbians trying to raise a family. Ohio doesn’t recognize SSM. Moving to a state that is gay friendly would do more to improve their life than anything else. So of course they want to move! I think they are attempting to use their daughter’s race to raise funds for a relocation that would’ve happened regardless. This rubs me to the wrong way because years from now, the kid is going to learn about this case and probably feel exploited. Why wouldn’t she? Her parents would be acting as though her toffee colored skin has caused more hardship to them than their own sexual orientation has. Yeah, that will go over well. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/256 "2014-10-06T14:12:17Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Those arguing against her getting any compenstion, does that mean you think that users of sperm banks should just be able to send out whatever they want? They refunded her on all the costs of IVF. Let me repeat that, since this keeps getting overlooked. They refunded her on all the costs of IVF. IVF costs several thousands of dollars. A company would go out of business if their error rate was such that they had to shell out this kind of money every time they botched an order. So can we retire this idea that she didn’t receive compensation? She did. She just didn’t receive an award for pain and suffering. To receive that, you have to actually show that you’ve been quantifiably harmed by a mistake. Just saying you were harmed is not enough. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/257 "2014-10-06T14:25:15Z")
Where are you getting this IVF stuff? Or this “quantifiably harmed by a mistake” stuff? To prevail on an action in tort, you have to show (1) that you were owed a duty\*, (2) that it was breached, (3) that said breach actually and proximately caused a result, and (4) that the result was harmful to you. “Quantifiability” is not an element. ---
**Author:** ![dude77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@dude77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude77)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/258 "2014-10-06T14:36:32Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The sperm bank is not at fault for racism and cultural insensitivity. This is why I think her lawsuit will fail. She’s attempting to hold the sperm bank responsible for other people’s attitudes. If her town is full of racist twats, here’s a thought. Why not hold the twats responsible? Because that would mean she’d have to see racism as being something other than an intractable fact of life, rather than a set of attitudes and beliefs that can be changed given enough time? Like homophobia? > > In an ideal world, having brownish skin and coily hair would be as value neutral as having white skin and straight hair. We’d look at the mother and child and simply see a mother and child, nothing shameful or unusual or dark and dirty. The traits we’re talking about aren’t defects, flaws, or handicaps. The girl is only black because of the one-drop rule and ridiculous standards of racial purity that continue to define whiteness in America. Judging by her appearance, I’d be surprised if the toddler was more than 25% African descent. Which makes all the touchiness and squeamishness about her appearance all the more telling. > > The bogeyman of being white and having a black child–even if that black child looks like a white person–was satirized by Mark Twain for Christ’s sake. And here we are in 2014, still dealing with this bogeyman and acting like there is a valid reason for assigning value to a person’s racial identity. Fascinating! You can’t make this stuff up. yes, in an ideal world it would not matter what you look like but unfortunately that’s not the reality right now … I see your point about the sperm bank not being responsible for peoples’ racism … but the reality is she would not be facing whatever problems(even if it should not be a problem) she is facing if they had not made that error … I mean, they should be held accountable for such an error to some type degree don’t you think ? … or should we just forgive these places anytime they screw up ? We’re not dealing with merchandise here ---
**Author:** ![dude77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ce73a5/32.png) [@dude77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dude77)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/259 "2014-10-06T14:45:15Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Please learn to use periods correctly. I’ve gotten used to writing like this on message boards … it’s quicker but proper grammar is always a good thing so I’ll try … > [@brickbacon](#): > > Second, I am not alleging her town is toxic; she is. Read the complaint. She is saying it’s so bad that she has to move. Toxic was my wording, but the sentiment and the broad characterization was hers. It became ‘toxic’ after she had her biracial kid. She was perfectly fine when it was only herself living amongst the other people in that town. Even if those people have racist tendencies, they all seemingly got along fine. Should it have become toxic upon the arrival of the child ? No it should not, but the fact is that it did and that would not have happened had the sperm bank not made the error. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Yes, I think if your family fundamentally disagrees with who you are to a point they damage you and your offspring, you should probably cut them off. We are not talking about disagreeing on politics or which team to root for. We are talking about creating a deleterious environment filled with prejudice such that she feels her daughter won’t get a fair shot. If you don’t cut of your family for those reasons, then you need to own the consequences, and not sue people based on their prejudices. Why shouldn’t she be able to sue them ? She did not willingly conceive this child with a black guy. If you tell me she did, then I would wholeheartedly agree that she has no basis to sue anyone. If not for their error, she would not have to move … Whether you think she is racist is irrelevant. She was apparently perfectly fine living there and would not have found any reason to have to move had the child been white(yes I get it, things like this should not matter but the reality is still affects people in certain places). Again, because of the error she’s had to rearrange her life and move. > [@brickbacon](#): > > Once again, how does that move cost $50k+? Even if I accept all of that, and the judge likely won’t based on precedent, why is it gonna cost in excess of $50k? This is what is in question. I don’t have the answer to that. But I do think she should be compensated in some way. > [@brickbacon](#): > > I am not pissed off at anyone. The issue here is you forget that there are degrees to racism just like there are to any other thing. Is it not homophobic if I don’t want to shower with a gay guy just because gay people have experienced worse? This is quite literally racist. She is saying she is damaged by her daughter’s blackness. Does it mean she is the worst person ever? No. As I said before, her opinions are not even that uncommon. That doesn’t change the fact that she is wronged by the sperm bank, but it also doesn’t make her a less culpable for her opinions and attitudes. I respectfully disagree. I don’t think she is saying that and I don’t think she thinks that. It looks to me as if she is just looking out for her kid. She realized where she lives is not going to be a healthy environment for her daughter and needs to get out of there. What is wrong with that ? You are damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If she stays there and her kid gets treated like shit, then people would be bashing her for being a bad parent. She decides her kid can’t live there because she’s black and people bash her anyways and call her racist for wanting to hold the sperm bank accountable. Ultimately people go to those places because they want to become parents and there’s a reason why you can pick and choose who the donor is and that is because people want the child to look a certain way. The fact that you want the kid to look a certain way may or may not be that important to some. Who are we to judge ? If the sperm bank screws that up, they should be held accountable in addition to whatever other issues they may cause which in this case is the lady having to move. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2014, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/260 "2014-10-06T14:47:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Where are you getting this IVF stuff? Or this “quantifiably harmed by a mistake” stuff? To prevail on an action in tort, you have to show (1) that you were owed a duty\*, (2) that it was breached, (3) that said breach actually and proximately caused a result, and (4) that the result was harmful to you. “Quantifiability” is not an element. If quantifiable wasn’t an element, then what do they base the damages on? They don’t pull numbers out of a hat, so of course the harm has to be quantified. If it wasn’t IVF she was refunded (I admit I might’ve gotten this detail wrong), it was the vials of sperm which cost thousands of dollars. According to [this](http://www.19actionnews.com/story/26682976/ohio-lesbian-couple-sues-sperm-bank-after-racial-mix-up) article, the company acknowledged the mistake and reimbursed her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120.md?page=14)