# She wanted a White child from a Sperm Bank **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 1, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120 "2014-10-01T19:30:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/341 "2014-10-09T01:06:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The vast majority of adopted children are adopted within their racial heritage. That has nothing to do with this child, since she wasn’t adopted. She’s with her biological mother and she is living in a home that reflects half her racial heritage. The vast majority of biracial children are probably not adopted by people who match the racial make up of their biological parents, though. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/342 "2014-10-09T01:12:56Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > That has nothing to do with this child, since she wasn’t adopted. . It has everything to do with the agreement between the woman and the sperm bank. The Genetic makeup of the child was chosen ahead of time just as it is in an adoption. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/343 "2014-10-09T01:28:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It has everything to do with the agreement between the woman and the sperm bank. The Genetic makeup of the child was chosen ahead of time just as it is in an adoption. And just as it is when a woman has a child naturally. Choosing the father for your own biological child is not, in effect, like adopting a living, unrelated child. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/344 "2014-10-09T01:31:50Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > I hate to say it, but I agree. If we take the mother at her word, she doesn’t have the cognitive skills, mental resilience, or resourcefulness to raise a child properly. Not just this child, but any child. And here is why I say this. > > - She is still living in the same town she claims is harming her child. Why hasn’t she moved already? If she thinks her kid is really suffering from a hostile environment, it shouldn’t take winning a lawsuit to get her to move. More diverse communities (like Akron) are a 20 minutes drive from where she’s living currently. > > - She needs a therapist to tell her the obvious–that moving to a more racially-tolerant community with good schools would be beneficial to her child. Gee, ya think? Why would a parent need a professional to tell them this? The implication is that she would be okay with raising a white child in a racially-intolerant town with bad schools. Why would she be okay with this, when we could just take one look at her own upbringing and see how racial insularity turned out badly for her? > > - She is putting her relationships with other family members above that of her child. If my uncle acted like my child was icky because her skin wasn’t the right color, I wouldn’t seek damages for my impaired relationship with this person. I would conclude the relationship wasn’t worth keeping in the first place. By blaming the sperm bank for her family member’s prejudice, she sends the message to the child that their hostility is a natural, forseeable, and logical consequence to the mistake that led to her conception. Bigotry should not be indulged in this way. > > The mother should hope people inclined to discriminate against homosexuals will not generalize her behavior to other lesbian couples. Because if they do, it will make it that much harder for gay parents to attain equality. You do realize this is easy to say, but hard to do in reality right? Not everyone has the financial resources to just up and move and cut off all contact with their family, not to mention the emotional cost of doing that. There is also an enormous difference between raising a child in a racist environment where they aren’t the target, and raising a child who will be the target of the hate. It doesn’t matter where you live, your child is going to encounter people with positions you disagree with, the most you can do is talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/345 "2014-10-09T01:49:03Z")
> [@grude](#): > > You do realize this is easy to say, but hard to do in reality right? Not everyone has the financial resources to just up and move and cut off all contact with their family, not to mention the emotional cost of doing that. She had the financial resources to pay thousands of dollars for the treatment. She also received a refund in that amount which she could use to move. > [@grude](#): > > There is also an enormous difference between raising a child in a racist environment where they aren’t the target, and raising a child who will be the target of the hate. But it’s not a positive environment in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/346 "2014-10-09T01:58:20Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > And just as it is when a woman has a child naturally. Choosing the father for your own biological child is not, in effect, like adopting a living, unrelated child. It is from the aspect that the genetic makeup is chosen ahead of time. I’m really not sure why you’re not getting this basic concept. She made a very specific choice just as if she married the donor or adopted a child. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/347 "2014-10-09T01:59:46Z")
> [@grude](#): > > You do realize this is easy to say, but hard to do in reality right? If she wasn’t prepared to handle hard reality, it was a mistake for her to have pursued parenthood. That’s my point. What would she be doing if the kid had a serious health problem that indicated a move to an area with better specialty medical care? Just sit around waiting for a check for $50K to fall from the heaven? What would she do if she had to deal with a child molestor for an uncle rather than a racist one? Would she seriously need to weigh (and monetize) the emotional cost in severing ties with this person against the emotional cost this person poses to her daughter? ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/348 "2014-10-09T02:34:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It is from the aspect that the genetic makeup is chosen ahead of time. > > I’m really not sure why you’re not getting this basic concept. She made a very specific choice just as if she married the donor or adopted a child. I’ve never claimed that she didn’t make a very specific choice, and I’m not sure why you would assume that there are people who don’t understand that she made a choice. Her choice does not mean that “She in effect adopted the offspring.” She made the same choice that everyone who has a biological child made, and no one would claim that those people “in effect adopted the offspring.” It does not answer the question of why this woman’s choice to have her own biological child is being compared to cases where people adopt the children of two unrelated people. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/349 "2014-10-09T02:58:19Z")
> [@Omega\_Glory](#): > > It does not answer the question of why this woman’s choice to have her own biological child is being compared to cases where people adopt the children of two unrelated people. If I may hazard a guess, the harping on adoption is a symptom of how black people are still “otherized” and treated taxonomically separate from whites. The refrain “the mother wanted a child that looks like her…” is another symptom of this. As if her daughter can’t possibly look like her just because she’s black. As if those little squirts of African blood in her DNA masks the considerable amount of European in her veins. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/350 "2014-10-09T05:04:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > She might as well be since plenty of posters in this thread agree with her position. Do you disagree or are you being deliberately obtuse? No. Some of us agree that she deserves compensation because she didn’t get the donor she chose. If the erroneous donor had been Japanese/Native American/Filipino/Pakistani/whatever she’d still entitled to compensation. Please quote who “insist that there’s some kind of terrible stigma attached to her being black”. Here. In this thread. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/351 "2014-10-09T10:58:46Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Please quote who “insist that there’s some kind of terrible stigma attached to her being black”. Here. In this thread. Have you read **Dangerosa’s** posts? You could try that for a start. Not only has she said the above and then some, but she’s arguing that the mother deserves compensation because “oh noes, black people’s economic worth is lower than whites!” I’m not quoting anything for you because you’re obviously a literate person and are capable of reading the thread just like I have. The arguments you’re claiming no one is making are already neatly laid out for you. While “some” of you are saying some things, others are clearly saying a lot more than that. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/352 "2014-10-09T11:44:51Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > No. Some of us agree that she deserves compensation because she didn’t get the donor she chose. If the erroneous donor had been Japanese/Native American/Filipino/Pakistani/whatever she’d still entitled to compensation. > > Please quote who “insist that there’s some kind of terrible stigma attached to her being black”. Here. In this thread. WTF! Do you think **you with the face** , **brickbacon** , **Omega Glory** , and I have been arguing with ourselves this whole time? If she were just suing because she only wanted a little towhead, I wouldn’t even be participating in the discussion because it’s unlikely there would be posters saying anything as ridiculous as what’s been said in this thread. If it was something as simple as this, she wouldn’t have mentioned her family’s racism, long-distance beauty salons, or having to move to a more diverse area. She wouldn’t have needed a psychiatrist. There would be no one saying that as a black person, statistically Payton is more likely to act out in school and need special services, and thus represents a defective product for this lady. That has been what we’ve been reacting to. And lookahere…every single one of us have said that we agree that she’s deserving of compensation for having been screwed over (whether it’s the refund or a little extra to smooth things over). We just don’t agree that she’s entitled to damages based on her current (crazy) line of argumentation. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/353 "2014-10-09T11:57:14Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > And lookahere…every single one of us have said that we agree that she’s deserving of compensation for having been screwed over (whether it’s the refund or a little extra to smooth things over). We just don’t agree that she’s entitled to damages based on her current (crazy) line of argumentation. OK. I totally agree with most of what you’ve been saying, _except_ I’m willing to allow for her argumentation being on the advice of her attorneys. When I’ve been in a situation requiring an attorney I remember suggesting, “well what about abc?”. My attorney pointed out that what I thought was important in the matter wouldn’t help me win in court and rather we should emphasize xyz. We won. I think she (and her daughter) deserve compensation. If they need to game the system a bit, without suborning perjury, so what? She obviously loves her kid. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/354 "2014-10-09T12:01:43Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Have you read **Dangerosa’s** posts? You could try that for a start. Not only has she said the above and then some, but she’s arguing that the mother deserves compensation because “oh noes, black people’s economic worth is lower than whites!” It occurs to me if this were a case about “wrongful” gender instead of race, the plaintiff could argue she’s damaged because globally, females are disfavored over males, women make less money than men, and females are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than men. And if they had wanted a girl but got a boy instead, they could argue that boys are more likely to suffer from neurological impairments, learning disabilities, conduct disorders, psychopathy, and criminality. They could argue they are ill-equipped to raise a boy, as two women, and thus need to move closer to an area where there are more positive male role models. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/355 "2014-10-09T12:06:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > OK. I totally agree with most of what you’ve been saying, _except_ I’m willing to allow for her argumentation being on the advice of her attorneys. When I’ve been in a situation requiring an attorney I remember suggesting, “well what about abc?”. My attorney pointed out that what I thought was important in the matter wouldn’t help me win in court and rather we should emphasize xyz. We won. > > I think she (and her daughter) deserve compensation. If they need to game the system a bit, without suborning perjury, so what? She obviously loves her kid. How much money would it take for you to get on a stand and say you wish your kid hadn’t been born? Because I’d hope my mother wouldn’t sell me out for $50K. I might understand if it was for two million and her chances of winning were good. But for $50K? Yeah, that doesn’t exactly say “love” to me. That says, “I don’t give a fuck about your feelings. Mama needs a new pair of shoes.” ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/356 "2014-10-09T12:11:27Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > OK. I totally agree with most of what you’ve been saying, _except_ I’m willing to allow for her argumentation being on the advice of her attorneys. When I’ve been in a situation requiring an attorney I remember suggesting, “well what about abc?”. My attorney pointed out that what I thought was important in the matter wouldn’t help me win in court and rather we should emphasize xyz. We won. > > I think she (and her daughter) deserve compensation. If they need to game the system a bit, without suborning perjury, so what? She obviously loves her kid. Even if I agreed that such a repugnant argument was likely to be more successful (which I highly doubt), I doubt anyone who actually loved there kid would make such a move for short term gain. At best, she will get a fairly inconsequential amount of money. Is that worth broadcasting to the world that you see your daughter as defective and burdensome? Is it worth establishing a precedent that views non majority characteristics as an actionable harm? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/357 "2014-10-09T12:14:01Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > How much money would it take for you to get on a stand and say you wish your kid hadn’t been born? I couldn’t do that, it would be perjury. But I could stretch things a bit. If my lawyer put me on the stand and asked me certain things in a certain way, I’d answer truthfully. And my attorney, knowing this, would frame the questions in a way I could tolerate. Now stop it before you change my mind. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/358 "2014-10-09T12:21:15Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > No one has said that. Many have said she is not due additional compensation because her daughter is biracial. More importantly, she has already received compensation in the form of a refund which was reportedly “thousands of dollars”. Actually, a couple of people have said that she’s not due any compensation at all. I don’t count you among them. The refund was part of the fees, and yes, it would be “thousands of dollars” because it’s not cheap. > [@](#): > > Wrong again. I think everyone acknowledges that most Black people experience fairly unique difficulties. What is at issue is if Blackness is something you should/can sue for and receive compensation even if your decision aggravated the harm, and even when you are not the person “injured”. Furthermore, people have issues with this lady saying her child was a wrongful birth because she is part Black, and elevating awkward situations like being in a Black salon as a White person to the basis for a lawsuit. > > Most importantly, do you want the law to codify racial and other prejudices, distilling them to harm that justifies payment? Do you want them law saying one marriage is worth less than another because the people are not lily White? Or saying injuring a Mexican person in an accident isn’t as costly because he’s Mexican? Once you go down the road from acknowledging disadvantages based on irrational prejudices, to using rational entities like the court system to give weight to those prejudices, you completely undermine basic human rights, and the collective effort to make to treat everyone as equal in the eyes of the law. I do see your reasoning here, but I see it more like having a child with physical disabilities due to the hospital’s negligence vs having a child with disabilities because shit happens. The former you can sue for, the latter not, despite the outcome being the same. Even though I do dislike equating being mixed-race with having a disability, because it obviously isn’t, it’s still a clear disadavantage in the world we live in. Even more so if your mixed-race kid has the extra disadvantage of living somewhere there are very few other non-whites and having only white people for parents. > [@](#): > > 0/3. Not surprising though. The argument is that if your standard of injury is not introducing any potential harm to the child, then you wouldn’t give a child to two lesbians. Additionally, it’s that one would hope that these two lesbians would be more enlightened given the struggles these two in particular have gone through. I thought it was about not introducing extra harm that the parents hadn’t planned for or taken into account, not just not having any harm at all. If you are two white people with a white donor you’re not going to be reasonably prepared for having a kid that is not white. > [@](#): > > People keep saying this as if lawsuits, and the fear of lawsuits are the only reasons people do their jobs. Are you really that cynical? Lawsuits are a terribly ineffective way of ensuring compliance and morality. If that is all that existed between people committing fraud, breaching contracts, and generally not giving a fuck, then we would collectively be in a MUCH worse state. It’s one of the main mechanisms to stop companies behaving badly, yes. It’s not all that exists to stop people commiting fraud, but it is one of the key items. It’s not all or nothing. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/359 "2014-10-09T12:47:22Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It occurs to me if this were a case about “wrongful” gender instead of race, the plaintiff could argue she’s damaged because globally, females are disfavored over males, women make less money than men, and females are more likely to be victims of sexual violence than men. And if they had wanted a girl but got a boy instead, they could argue that boys are more likely to suffer from neurological impairments, learning disabilities, conduct disorders, psychopathy, and criminality. They could argue they are ill-equipped to raise a boy, as two women, and thus need to move closer to an area where there are more positive male role models. And I’m sure race isn’t the only trait that differs between the donors. If her chosen donor was significantly taller or skinnier than the one she received, the mother could argue that by receiving “short genes” or “fat genes” her daughter has been saddled with disadvantage too. And she would look just as silly and self-entitled as she does now. Almost anyone could qualify as disadvantaged depending on how they are sliced and diced. To treat this child like a faceless statistic just to argue that she is worth less than a white child (and yes, that’s exactly what that argument implies) is not only offensive. It’s stupid. Anyone who has looked at the girl’s picture can see that she is gorgeous. As with any child, her life is a blank slate full of promise. I hope she reads this thread one day and is able to laugh at the doom and gloom predictions made about her future. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120/360 "2014-10-09T12:52:37Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > She obviously loves her kid. It is not obvious to me. What makes this obvious? > [@monstro](#): > > “I don’t give a fuck about your feelings. Mama needs a new pair of shoes.” Lol! “I love you, but you’re not what I wanted” is not something a kid should ever hear. Ever. All the mother would need to do to is imagine her own parents saying the same to her for being gay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/she-wanted-a-white-child-from-a-sperm-bank/700120.md?page=19)