# Shepherd's Pie **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 8, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615 "2014-12-08T00:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/41 "2014-12-09T16:43:04Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I could eat some кишка (kishka). Whoops, I realize I have a typo in my previous post. It’s _kiszka_. (Damned typing on my phone.) > [@](#): > > It’s all but impossible to find good blood sausage in the area. I may end up biting the bullet and driving a couple hours over to Parma OH, where there is a large Ukrainian population, to stock up on kishka, salo, and other delicacies for the holidays. Yeah, it’s good stuff. From black pudding to blutwurst to véreshurka to kiszka, blood sausages are delicious! I never could develop the taste for duck blood soup, though. I mean, I’ll eat it, but it’s not something I’d ever go out of my way for (whereas the various blood sausages I love.) ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/42 "2014-12-09T16:57:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Or mutton? You can’t even **get** mutton in America! Sure you can, at least in major urban areas. Try a hallal butcher if you’re having difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/43 "2014-12-09T18:05:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Or mutton? You can’t even **get** mutton in America! [QUOTE=Some Troll in The Hobbit] Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don’t look like mutton again tomorrer… [/QUOTE] Sorry for trolling, mods! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/44 "2014-12-09T22:14:28Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > I was in a local restaurant/pub run by an Irish couple having the most awesome breakfast and I asked for HP. They didn’t have any, but offered instead, homemade Black Whiskey Sauce. (I think, it’s been a few years.) Sweet, sharp, tangy -it was so good, and perfect with my eggs. I can imagine it would be very good with a meat dish as well. Perhaps something like that is what the author had in mind? And as for the use of the word pouring… how else do you describe what someone does with ketchup on fries? That sounds a little like A1 Steak Sauce which I’ve put on my eggs sometimes and not regretted it. ---
**Author:** ![Satellite\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Satellite\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satellite_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/45 "2014-12-09T23:16:03Z")
Not necessarily pertinent to the discussion at hand, my wife and I adopted my parents’ way of making shepherd’s pie. Browned ground beef (my parents put chopped onion in theirs), cream corn, then mashed potatoes, brushed with butter and sprinkled with paprika, then put into the oven until the edges start to brown. delish. A local Irish pub makes theirs with peas and carrots instead of corn, which is also wonderfully yummy. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/46 "2014-12-09T23:32:21Z")
Are there not recipes for shepherd’s pie that call for Guinness to be added to the gravy? :dubious: That would make it black. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/47 "2014-12-09T23:42:32Z")
As for the dish’s origins, aren’t the Scottish–English borderlands noted for their sheep herding? I read somewhere once that grabbing a sheep in Northumbria and successfully spiriting it across the border was the origin of the phrase “Scot free.” ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/48 "2014-12-10T00:21:46Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > As for the dish’s origins, aren’t the Scottish–English borderlands noted for their sheep herding? I read somewhere once that grabbing a sheep in Northumbria and successfully spiriting it across the border was the origin of the phrase “Scot free.” That’s funny. “Successfuly spiriting across the border” I reckon the term just means “You got away without any legal penalty”. Otherwise, I’ve no clue. Maybe one for Cecil? And if it was my sheep, I’d have my hounds chase the thief down, even if it meant crossing Hadrian’s Wall. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/49 "2014-12-10T02:23:28Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > That’s funny. “Successfuly spiriting across the border” I reckon the term just means “You got away without any legal penalty”. Otherwise, I’ve no clue. Maybe one for Cecil? > > And if it was my sheep, I’d have my hounds chase the thief down, even if it meant crossing Hadrian’s Wall. Again, just what I read long ago. Though I did once know a Scottish gentleman named Armstrong who claimed he was indeed descended from such miscreants! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/50 "2014-12-10T02:28:34Z")
[Scot free](http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=scot-free) > [@](#): > > Old English scotfreo “exempt from royal tax” ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/51 "2014-12-10T09:37:17Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > How many is some? I’ve never heard another American say anything like that. Our stereotypes of what you eat run more towards that you have fish and chips or tea and crumpets at every meal. It’s not as common as that stereotype, but it comes up more often than anyone in the UK eats black pudding (like in this thread). Naturally if you’re British you’ll notice stereotypes people come up with regarding British people more than if you’re not British. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/52 "2014-12-10T11:35:08Z")
> [@brainstall](#): > > I was in a local restaurant/pub run by an Irish couple having the most awesome breakfast and I asked for HP. They didn’t have any, but offered instead, homemade Black Whiskey Sauce. (I think, it’s been a few years.) Sweet, sharp, tangy -it was so good, and perfect with my eggs. I can imagine it would be very good with a meat dish as well. Perhaps something like that is what the author had in mind? And as for the use of the word pouring… how else do you describe what someone does with ketchup on fries? Thanks for mentioning this I looked up “black whiskey sauce” and found a couple nice recipes to bookmark. Previously, I’d only seen sweet whiskey sauces, to be poured (yes, poured) over bread pudding. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/53 "2014-12-10T11:41:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I agree. If it’s a stereotype, it’s not a particularly known one. I think many Anericans would be aware of black pudding but, beyond that, I don’t think its a known association. In my neighborhood, blood is more associated with Polish food (blood sausage/kiszma, and duck blood soup/czernina) and some Asian cuisines. My grandparents, originally from Finland, made their own blood sausage here in the US when my father was a kid. And head cheese. No potential food item was wasted in the 1920’s and 1930’s. According to my father, it was good. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615/54 "2014-12-10T12:28:03Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > As for the dish’s origins, aren’t the Scottish–English borderlands noted for their sheep herding? Yes, but the origin of shepherd’s pie doesn’t have anything to do with sheep or shepherding – in the earliest recipes we have for it, it’s just an alternative name for the already well-established Cottage pie, using whatever meat was available. It was only later that the convention arose of Shepherd’s pie being exclusively the lamb or mutton version. > [@Coriolanus](#): > > And if it was my sheep, I’d have my hounds chase the thief down, even if it meant crossing Hadrian’s Wall. You’d want more than your dogs; the [Border Reivers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Reivers) were organised, armed and armoured, and serious business. You’d certainly have had to cross Hadrian’s Wall, though, because the Scottish Border’s a long way north of there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shepherds-pie/706615.md?page=2)