# Sheriff officer resigns after Florida Shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 23, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373 "2018-02-23T00:22:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/81 "2018-02-23T23:50:55Z")
I understand the arguments about how he was out-gunned, etc., but \*everyone else \*was “out-gunned” even more so, save for the gunman, and the whole point of having an officer on duty at school is for precisely situations like this. If he wasn’t going to intervene, then you might as well not have an officer at all. This is analogous to an EMT not performing first aid on a severely bleeding patient because “he’s not a paramedic and doesn’t have the gear that an ambulance crew would.” Sure, but an EMT is better than nothing at all, and the patient’s bleeding to death. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/82 "2018-02-24T00:03:33Z")
That being said, considering the walls of a school, is it possible for someone to stand outside of a school building and not hear gunfire or shouts inside? If it’s brick walls or anything thick, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/83 "2018-02-24T00:05:03Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > How could these guys have failed their duty so badly? I am truly stunned. Especially since it’s in their job description. The FBI failed at their job pretty spectacularly too; I just posted this in the Pit: [Transcript of call to FBI](https://apnews.com/ffbf69208b8040ba9e6b3d91e6bad5ce/Caller-told-FBI-Florida-shooting-suspect-'going-to-explode'); this is gonna break people’s hearts (and prolly cause a bunch of people to lose their jobs and possibly for law enforcement to re-think their shit. > [@](#): > > A woman close to the man charged with killing 17 people at a Florida high school warned the FBI in chilling detail that he had a growing collection of guns and a temper so uncontrollable she worried about him “getting into as school and just shooting the place up.” > > The Associated Press on Friday obtained a transcript of the Jan. 5 tip to the FBI’s call center. The FBI acknowledged it failed to investigate the tip about 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz, but the transcript provides the fullest glimpse yet into the seriousness of the woman’s concerns. > > “I know he’s going to explode,” she told the call-taker. > [@](#): > > During the phone call, which spanned more than 13 minutes, the woman described a teenager prone to anger with the “mental capacity of a 12 to 14 year old” that deteriorated after his mother died last year. She pointed the FBI to several Instagram accounts where Cruz had posted photos of sliced-up animals and rifles and ammunition he apparently purchased with money from his mother’s life insurance policy. > > “It’s alarming to see these pictures and know what he is capable of doing and what could happen,” the caller said. “He’s thrown out of all these schools because he would pick up a chair and just throw it at somebody, a teacher or a student, because he didn’t like the way they were talking to him.” > > The woman said she called the local police in Parkland, Florida, after Cruz began posting online that he wanted to kill himself. Then, she said, the threat changed to “I want to kill people.” She said he had killed animals and once held his mother at rifle-point. > > “I just want to, you know, get it off my chest in case something does happen,” the woman said. “And I do believe something’s going to happen.” The FBI were also alerted to a video on YouTube; pay attention to the details here: > [@](#): > > The FBI briefed congressional staff Friday about its failure to act on the alarming tip, as well as why it did not delve into a September 2017 YouTube comment posted by a “Nikolas Cruz” that said, “Im going to be a professional school shooter.” The FBI linked the January call to the report of the YouTube comment, but an FBI intake specialist and a supervisor at the call center took no further action, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley’s office said Friday. > > Google, which owns YouTube, also briefed congressional staffers. One reason the FBI didn’t investigate the YouTube video further? They didn’t actually, ya know, _try_: > [@](#): > > As for the YouTube post, Grassley’s office said the FBI opened a counterterrorism lead but closed it less than a month later because agents were unable to identify the person behind it. Google told congressional staff it could have helped, if the FBI had asked last year. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/84 "2018-02-24T00:07:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I understand the arguments about how he was out-gunned, etc., but \*everyone else \*was “out-gunned” even more so, save for the gunman, and the whole point of having an officer on duty at school is for precisely situations like this. If he wasn’t going to intervene, then you might as well not have an officer at all. As **Loach** pointed out, tho, this _isn’t_ why we have school resource officers. I agree he should have gone in and confronted the shooter, but that is not the main reason that the position of school resource officer was created nor their general job description. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/85 "2018-02-24T00:15:17Z")
I’d like to think I am the kind of person who would rush in to help. I mean, I think I am… But who really knows how they are going to react when the situation presents itself. When that fight or flight surge of adrenaline kicks in, some people freeze up. Doesn’t make them bad people. I don’t know if that’s what happened with this guy. I know what he _should_ have done, but I can’t help feel a bit sorry for him. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/86 "2018-02-24T00:23:59Z")
[Here’s a bit more on what information existed in the wild before the shooting:](http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201684874.html) > [@](#): > > ▪ Feb. 5, 2016: A Broward Sheriff’s Office deputy is told by an anonymous caller that Nikolas Cruz, then 17, had threatened on Instagram to shoot up his school and posted a photo of himself with guns. The information is forwarded to BSO Deputy Scot Peterson, a school resource officer at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School. > > ▪ Sept. 23, 2016: A “peer counselor” reports to Peterson that Cruz had possibly ingested gasoline in a suicide attempt, was cutting himself and wanted to buy a gun. A mental health counselor advises against involuntary committing Cruz. The high school says it will conduct a threat assessment. > > ▪ Sept. 28, 2016: An investigator for the Florida Department of Children and Families rules Cruz is stable, despite “fresh cuts” on his arms. His mother, Lynda Cruz, says in the past he wrote “hate signs” on his book bag and had recently talked of buying firearms. > > ▪ Sept. 24, 2017: A YouTube user named “nikolas cruz” posts a comment stating he wants to become a “professional school shooter.” The comment is reported to the FBI in Mississippi, which fails to make the connection to Cruz in South Florida. > > ▪ Nov. 1, 2017: Katherine Blaine, Lynda Cruz’s cousin, calls BSO to report that Nikolas Cruz had weapons and asks that police recover them. A “close family friend” agrees to take the firearms, according to BSO. > > ▪ Nov. 29, 2017: The Palm Beach County family that took in Cruz after the death of his mother calls the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22. A member of the family says Cruz had threatened to “get his gun and come back” and that he has “put the gun to others’ heads in the past.” The family does not want him arrested once he calms down. > > ▪ Nov. 30, 2017: A caller from Massachusetts calls BSO to report that Cruz is collecting guns and knives and could be a “school shooter in the making.” A BSO deputy advises the caller to contact the Palm Beach sheriff. > > ▪ Jan. 5, 2018: A caller to the FBI’s tip line reports that Cruz has “a desire to kill people” and could potentially conduct a school shooting. The information is never passed on to the FBI’s office in Miami. > > ▪ Feb. 14, 2018: Nikolas Cruz attacks Stoneman Douglas High. Peterson, the school’s resource officer, draws his gun outside the building where Cruz is shooting students and staff. He does not enter. The Jan 5 call to the FBI was quite damning. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/87 "2018-02-24T01:52:27Z")
At this point we don’t know what happened. He was on the outside of a building where he presumably hears shots fired and people are streaming out of every possible exit. He doesn’t know where the shooter is or how many there are. He needs to report what’s going on so the police response is as coordinated as it can be. He then has to enter the building with some expectation of surviving long enough to locate the shooter(s) and be able to return fire. It’s not like he’s going to be able to interview students fleeing the building. It’s a different scenario if he’s inside the area in question and can see what’s going on and react to it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/88 "2018-02-24T03:15:17Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Wow, that’s a very interesting article. I’m wondering if that dept is still training officers to do the old, pre-Columbine way of setting up a perimeter given that four deputies from that dept didn’t enter the building. When officers from another dept arrived it sounds like the deputies directed them but didn’t join them in making entry. Its not totally clear to me yet if all of them arrived while there was still shooting going on. The SRO was on scene from the beginning of course. From what I’m reading on cop pages this information is coming out because there is a pissing match between Coral Springs Police and the county. Coral Springs Officers felt they took on the brunt of the initial danger and the horror of dealing with the dead and injured but it was the sheriff who bravely jumped in front of the television cameras. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Eleven years ago, there was a [notorious home invasion in a small Connecticut town](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders). The local police were aware of the situation and were at the scene, setting up a perimeter and didn’t act for more than thirty minutes, while the wife and two daughters were raped and murdered. > > (One reason the police were aware of the situation at the house was that one of the two criminals drove the mother to the bank so she could withdraw $15,000. He stayed in the car outside, while she withdrew the money and informed the teller of the situation, before she went back to the car.) > > I bring up that case because perhaps it demonstrates that a small-town police force is out of its depths when dealing with such a situation? That’s going into another direction. That’s not an active shooter situation, that’s a barricaded suspect. Even more dangerous and hard to deal with. That’s a small space with armed suspects and you’re basically walking into a death trap. In that situation the only option is often to set up a perimeter and wait for tactical teams that have breaching capabilities. There is no good answer. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/89 "2018-02-24T14:00:26Z")
Yup, the officer is now a coward and all sorts of other names - and it might even be true. However, this is an excuse to cover for the real problem - sure various agencies also failed, still a band aid over the real issue. As for that terrible Conneticut incident, well lets see, what made the perps so dangerous, what was it that acted as the force multiplier? Remember the old hippy saying, fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity - pouring bucketloads of guns into society in order to protect people seems to me to be a similar analogy. The elephant in the room is still there folks, its just that NRA and Trump are now covering it with an ill-fitting duvet. No guns, no school shootings - simple as - its your choice and its not for me to tell you what to do - that’s for y’all. Perps will always find ways to offer lethal force, so it make sense to reduce the amount available. You choose your way, its your democracy, equally its for you to carry the burden and accept the results if its a price you are willing to pay and it seems to me that further massacres are an acceptable price to you - fine, your choice. In the UK we have our own problems and we deal with them in various levels of effectiveness - good or bad. No system is perfect but I have not yet seen a NRA supporting person come up with realistic alternative other than more guns. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/90 "2018-02-24T14:26:57Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > No guns, no school shootings - simple as - its your choice and its not for me to tell you what to do - that’s for y’all. Not quite, the argument shouldn’t be put like that because it is never that simple but I’d defintely argue that… less guns and well regulated guns means less shootings overall ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/91 "2018-02-24T14:52:47Z")
Is it possible that he really did choose on his own to resign, and that that isn’t just a polite fiction for “fired”? Being put on administrative leave after something like this, while the department figures out what went wrong and if anyone should be blamed, is fairly standard, but it often ends with the conclusion “nobody did anything wrong; come back to work”. At the same time, I can easily imagine that the cop in question is having a really tough time of all of this, and asking himself all sorts of uncomfortable questions, and maybe he just decided that he, personally, couldn’t continue to be a cop after what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/92 "2018-02-24T14:59:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He absolutely should have acted. > > … And for the rest of his life, he will seconds guess this and live with the consequences. An otherwise good cop in a situation he handled like a rookie. What a terrible way to end a career. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/93 "2018-02-24T15:01:24Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > The elephant in the room is still there folks, its just that NRA and Trump are now covering it with an ill-fitting duvet. The elephant in the room is violence in society. The gun is irrelevant. If we could magically make them all go away the actual problem would still exist. > [@casdave](#): > > No guns, no school shootings - simple as - its your choice and its not for me to tell you what to do - that’s for y’all. If the shooter didn’t have a gun he would killed the students some other way. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/94 "2018-02-24T15:09:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The elephant in the room is violence in society. The gun is irrelevant. If we could magically make them all go away the actual problem would still exist. So until such point as a “magical” thing happens we should continue to allow people access to weapons that make the expression of that violence far easier? > [@](#): > > If the shooter didn’t have a gun he would killed the students some other way. name me an easier way for him to kill as many as quickly You could be right of course, after all our schools in the UK have double-digit murders all the time without guns. They use bombs, swords, cars, harsh language…oh wait, no they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/95 "2018-02-24T15:16:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The elephant in the room is violence in society. The gun is irrelevant. If we could magically make them all go away the actual problem would still exist. > > If the shooter didn’t have a gun he would killed the students some other way. This is a childish argument, IMO, and a repeated one. Guns aren’t the only issue, but they are part of it. Guns are more lethal than knives (and some kinds of guns are more lethal than other kinds of guns); knives are more lethal than bare hands; etc. Adults can recognize this while also recognizing that this is a complex issue that isn’t nearly as simple as “let’s ban guns”. If he had had access to a rocket launcher, C4, or nukes/chemical/biological weapons, he could have killed even more people – thankfully, government regulation has successfully made such weapons very difficult to acquire. If he’d had a fully automatic weapon, he might have killed more people – thankfully, government regulation has made full auto weapons difficult to acquire. It’s just silly and beneath reasonable adults to pretend that the fact that he could easily acquire very lethal firearms has nothing to do with the body count of this event. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/96 "2018-02-24T15:45:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Is it possible that he really did choose on his own to resign, and that that isn’t just a polite fiction for “fired”? Being put on administrative leave after something like this, while the department figures out what went wrong and if anyone should be blamed, is fairly standard, but it often ends with the conclusion “nobody did anything wrong; come back to work”. At the same time, I can easily imagine that the cop in question is having a really tough time of all of this, and asking himself all sorts of uncomfortable questions, and maybe he just decided that he, personally, couldn’t continue to be a cop after what happened. It’s impossible for me to answer specifically about this department. Among other cops Southern Departments have a bad reputation for having weak to no unions and having very little job protection (along with low pay). Basically if the boss doesn’t like you you’re gone regardless of if you haven’t violated the law, policy or proceedures. The statements by the sheriff made it clear he was done and he has enough time on to retire. It was his best option. There is an element of politics in every police department. At some point there is an elected official involved. It’s usually worse in Sheriff’s departments since the top uniformed law enforcement official is also an elected official. Even if Peterson could show he followed policy and procedures the politics would have doomed him. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/97 "2018-02-24T15:51:54Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So until such point as a “magical” thing happens we should continue to allow people access to weapons that make the expression of that violence far easier? yes. because the magical world doesn’t exist. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > name me an easier way for him to kill as many as quickly car, truck, bus. pick one. Or you can make your own bomb if you’re bored. But we’re hi-jacking the nature of this thread. If you want to discuss it further take it over to one of the gun threads. I’m not going to respond to this line anymore in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/98 "2018-02-24T16:04:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > yes. because the magical world doesn’t exist. > > car, truck, bus. pick one. Or you can make your own bomb if you’re bored. But we’re hi-jacking the nature of this thread. If you want to discuss it further take it over to one of the gun threads. I’m not going to respond to this line anymore in this thread. **Magiver** , I started a new thread about the lethality and availability of guns: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20809550#post20809550](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20809550#post20809550) ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/99 "2018-02-24T16:33:41Z")
[There was a better response](https://www.npr.org/2017/12/18/571760004/report-critiques-orlando-police-response-to-pulse-nightclub-shooting) to the Pulse night club shooting. Sure, there were some communication issues and the officers weren’t well equipped, but there was no one standing outside with their thumb up their ass. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373/100 "2018-02-24T16:41:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The elephant in the room is violence in society. The gun is irrelevant. If we could magically make them all go away the actual problem would still exist. > > If the shooter didn’t have a gun he would killed the students some other way. The available evidence suggests that this notion is incorrect; availability of the tool has a lot to do with how often the tool is used. [Cite](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts) and [cite](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC478945/). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sheriff-officer-resigns-after-florida-shooting/809373.md?page=6)