# Sherlock Holmes fans: does it bother you when Mycroft isn't fat in adaptations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 14, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633 "2014-11-14T18:52:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/21 "2014-11-14T22:27:14Z")
I don’t know… On one hand, I’m generally annoyed when people adapt something and don’t bother to capture certain key details about a character. Sometimes a creative twist works - maybe even enhances the original - but for the most part, I’d prefer faithful adaptations of the author’s work. If you want “smart guy solves crimes” then go write that and don’t call it Sherlock Holmes. As soon as you call it Sherlock, I expect a certain degree of consideration for the original. On the other hand, I have always felt like the characters of Mycroft and Moriarity are weak points of the Sherlock Holmes world. This probably disqualifies me as a fan of the original SH, and I won’t really dispute that. There’s a lot about SH that annoys the hell out of me. Since I’m not such a big fan of those characters, changes to them don’t bother me as much as it normally would. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/22 "2014-11-14T22:40:58Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > I’m slightly bemused that I am apparently the only person on earth who thinks that Gatiss is slightly tubby. > > I mean, corpulent, no way. Rotund, not really. But skinny? Slender? Thin? Not to my eyes. Mayhap. I’ve seen him on Sherlock only a few times and might be misremembering. But he is not a good match for Real!Mycroft. Why yes, I DO mean that only those stories written by Conan Doyle and existing in print form are genuine Holmes stories, and that anything else is an offense to Calliope. You wanna fight about it? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/23 "2014-11-14T22:48:01Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > On the other hand, I have always felt like the characters of Mycroft and Moriarity are weak points of the Sherlock Holmes world. Neither character is actually in the original stories that much. Moriarty especially, is basically “off camera” almost entirely in the one story he a major role in, and doesn’t really have much actual character other than the fact that he’s an evil murderer, an academic, and the “Napoleon of Crime”. I thank that’s the neat thing about the Holmes canon though. Doyle didn’t really do that much to develop any of the characters except Holmes. Even Watson doesn’t really do much except act as a transparent witness for Holmes’s exploits. As a result, later authors have been free to develop Mycroft, Moriarty, Lestrade, Adler, Mrs Hudson, etc. in different, interesting (or not) ways. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/24 "2014-11-14T22:48:14Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I don’t know… > > On one hand, I’m generally annoyed when people adapt something and don’t bother to capture certain key details about a character. Sometimes a creative twist works - maybe even enhances the original - but for the most part, I’d prefer faithful adaptations of the author’s work. If you want “smart guy solves crimes” then go write that and don’t call it Sherlock Holmes. As soon as you call it Sherlock, I expect a certain degree of consideration for the original. > > On the other hand, I have always felt like the characters of Mycroft and Moriarity are weak points of the Sherlock Holmes world. This probably disqualifies me as a fan of the original SH, and I won’t really dispute that. There’s a lot about SH that annoys the hell out of me. Since I’m not such a big fan of those characters, changes to them don’t bother me as much as it normally would. How is Moriarty a weak point? He appears basically that one time in the death story. Sherlock’s John Watson & Mrs. Hudson are both fairly different–well, more fleshed-out–that in Conan Doyle, but in a way that works for me. I love the scene when Holmes is alone with the guy who had terrified and roughed up Mrs. Hudson, and the second I saw them alone I thought, “That guy at a minimum is about to get the crap beaten out of him, as a matter of principle.” And Sherlock & John’s looking daggers at Lestrade for daring to speak ill of her was great as well. It still bugs me that they’re on a first-name basis, though. The thing Elementary gets most right is that Holmes is on a first-name basis with Mycroft and nobody else. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/25 "2014-11-14T23:10:05Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Neither character is actually in the original stories that much. Moriarty especially, is basically “off camera” almost entirely in the one story he a major role in, and doesn’t really have much actual character other than the fact that he’s an evil murderer, an academic, and the “Napoleon of Crime”. > > I thank that’s the neat thing about the Holmes canon though. Doyle didn’t really do that much to develop any of the characters except Holmes. Even Watson doesn’t really do much except act as a transparent witness for Holmes’s exploits. As a result, later authors have been free to develop Mycroft, Moriarty, Lestrade, Adler, Mrs Hudson, etc. in different, interesting (or not) ways. Hmmm… I might have to revise my opinion of the original novels then. My memories must be mixing up the originals with so much of the later movies and such. (There we go: the importance of staying true to the source material. Sometimes it gets hard to remember which version is which.) I just loathe the whole “criminal mastermind nemesis” stereotype embodied by Moriarty. Even Mycroft’s role is sometimes played up as “Look! Another supergenius!” We just don’t more of that need that in the Sherlock world, I feel. With the BBC’s latest Sherlock series, I absolutely loved the very first episode, but the more it looks like a Mensa pissing contest, the less I enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/26 "2014-11-14T23:36:23Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > I’m slightly bemused that I am apparently the only person on earth who thinks that Gatiss is slightly tubby. > > I mean, corpulent, no way. Rotund, not really. But skinny? Slender? Thin? Not to my eyes. [Really?!](http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/karin_woywod/11451123/3604457/3604457_original.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/27 "2014-11-14T23:43:56Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > Hmmm… I might have to revise my opinion of the original novels then. My memories must be mixing up the originals with so much of the later movies and such. (There we go: the importance of staying true to the source material. Sometimes it gets hard to remember which version is which.) > > I just loathe the whole “criminal mastermind nemesis” stereotype embodied by Moriarty. Yeah: as **Skald** notes, Arthur Conan Doyle invented Moriarty, not to be a recurring character, but to kill off Holmes. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/28 "2014-11-14T23:54:43Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Yes… Adaptions should be as close to the original as possible. > > (Bummer about John Carter of Mars, given that Dejah Thoris is described as naked…) If it’s any consolation, I think Stephen Fry was naked in the second Sherlock Holmes movie. Don’t know if that’s true to the books or not. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/29 "2014-11-15T00:07:45Z")
No, I don’t care that Gatiss’s Mycroft is slender. The actor who played Mycroft in the Jeremy Brett series was robust, if not fat, and I liked that actor, too. It’s all about the actor’s performance to me. And I _love_ Mark Gatiss in the role. I loved that one nicely composed shot in _Scandal in Bohemia_ when both the Holmes brothers were facing in one direction and we see them together in profile as they contemplate something sad. They’re both tall and slender and we can believe that they’re brothers. ETA: Nice photo, **jayjay**. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/30 "2014-11-15T02:24:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Did I not EXPLICITLY say in the OP that the first man who reminded me of the merest aspect of those abominations would be stripped naked, bound & gagged, slathered with cooking grease, and dropped the a murder of crows? No, you didn’t. Skald, I don’t mean this as an attack, but sometimes you take your gimmick way too far. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/31 "2014-11-15T03:28:25Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > No, you didn’t. > > Skald, I don’t mean this as an attack, but sometimes you take your gimmick way too far. It was a joke, man. The point of it was that it was an obvious lie. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/32 "2014-11-15T03:45:13Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > . The actor who played Mycroft in the Jeremy Brett series was robust, if not fat, and I liked that actor, too. [But he had no fucking neck.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0336509/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1) ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/33 "2014-11-15T03:49:30Z")
Well, I was another who thought Gatiss wasn’t quite “slender” - which I admit is bizarre, seeing as in the photo posted above he’s definitely very thin. But I think the style of clothing in the show makes him look a tad heavier, like over [here](http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/36300000/Mycroft-Holmes-image-mycroft-holmes-36389930-496-554.jpg). Still far from pudgy, though. Anyway, his non-fatness doesn’t really bother me. He still manages to capture the essence of Mycroft, which doesn’t depend on weight. If there was one thing I could change about the show (and there’s not much - IMO, it’s one of the best shows on TV now, which given the quality of programming recently is saying a lot), I’d like the plots to follow closer to the original stories. Of course, some variation is expected, but I notice that in both Sherlock and Doctor Who Moffat has a tendency to concoct unnecessarily intricate plotlines that don’t quite make sense and are so complex plotholes are inevitable. Still, it doesn’t impact Sherlock as much as Doctor Who because Sherlock’s a heavily character-based show (extremely unusual for a mystery series), and the characters are perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/34 "2014-11-15T03:49:34Z")
One thing to keep in mind (though it doesn’t really affect the Sherlock or Elementary versions) is that there’s a big difference between what was considered “corpulent” in Holmes’s time vs. now. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/35 "2014-11-15T04:41:38Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > It was a joke, man. The point of it was that it was an obvious lie. Sure, sure. But after the third death threat, it loses a little zing and I’m just… zzz… See, couldn’t even stay awake to finish my thought. Downey would have kept me awake. ---
**Author:** ![SDarbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@SDarbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDarbo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/36 "2014-11-15T04:53:01Z")
In the BBC Sherlock someone goes by Mycroft and says something like " My, Mycroft but you have lost a lot of weight." The BBC series makes nods to the original work and how they’ve varied things. I’m not bugged. The fun of a source material that is continually readapted is seeing what variations and new interpretations are going to come about. Admittedly I only read two or three Doyle originals and that was when I was in grade school. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/37 "2014-11-15T12:41:51Z")
They do also reference it as have been twisted off in “The Sign of Three” (S3E2) in which Mycroft is shown finishing up on the treadmill and grabs a slight paunch (which he does have) after the fact. This is before Sherlock calls him and they again reference Mycroft’s social reclusivity. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/38 "2014-11-15T13:10:32Z")
I think it’s also a matter of period context. Back during the Gilded Age, rich, middle-aged men who worked indoors tended towards fat - look at Taft, of Cecil Rhodes, or J.P. Morgan. It would be very rare for a man of Mycroft’s class and occupation to be thin back then. Today, though, it’s the upper-crust go-getters who have nutritionists and personal trainers, and are expected to maintain an athletic frame. A top-level intelligence wonk like Mycroft wouldn’t allow himself to gain weight. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/39 "2014-11-15T17:07:55Z")
It doesn’t bother me in **Sherlock**. As **Alessan** said, Mycroft of the Edwardian era was a product of his times. “He never takes exercise for the sake of exercise”. At that time, there was no knowledge that being obese was bad for you. A modern man of Mycroft’s drive and intelligence would know better and make himself work out, even if he didn’t like it. StG ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633/40 "2014-11-15T17:28:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I think it’s also a matter of period context. Back during the Gilded Age, rich, middle-aged men who worked indoors tended towards fat - look at Taft, of Cecil Rhodes, or J.P. Morgan. It would be very rare for a man of Mycroft’s class and occupation to be thin back then. Today, though, it’s the upper-crust go-getters who have nutritionists and personal trainers, and are expected to maintain an athletic frame. A top-level intelligence wonk like Mycroft wouldn’t allow himself to gain weight. This is basically what I was about to say. It might bother me if _Sherlock_ gave the impression that Mycroft had never struggled with his weight, but as others have mentioned there have been references to dieting and exercise indicating that Mycroft used to be much heavier and has to work at maintaining his current weight. Although the Mycroft in Doyle’s stories wouldn’t have done this, in the modern world it seems likely that his weight would have been more of an issue when it came to his career. Not because of his actual responsibilities, but because obese people are often stereotyped as being sloppy and stupid. The Wikipedia article on [Mycroft Holmes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycroft_Holmes) features Sidney Edward Paget’s illustration of the character for _The Strand_. If the guy in the illustration lost a good bit of weight then I think he would resemble Mark Gatiss-as-Mycroft. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-holmes-fans-does-it-bother-you-when-mycroft-isnt-fat-in-adaptations/704633.md?page=3)