# Sherlock January 15 2017 "The Final Problem" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 15, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270 "2017-01-15T22:44:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/21 "2017-01-16T15:37:41Z")
At the end, when Euros was recaptured, I thought someone should have just walked up to her and shot her in the head. Given how dangerous she was shown to be, there was no reason to let her continue to live. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/22 "2017-01-16T15:57:30Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > At the end, when Euros was recaptured, I thought someone should have just walked up to her and shot her in the head. Given how dangerous she was shown to be, there was no reason to let her continue to live. Well, coming back around to what I’d said before: why did Mycroft give her those five minutes with Moriarty, back when? Because – with considerably less information than Mycroft had – she was able to predict three terrorist attacks on the UK in time to stop them. Now, that maybe isn’t a _great_ reason; but it’s _a_ reason, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/23 "2017-01-16T15:59:42Z")
I guess my feeling is whoever urged who - out of Moffat and Gatiss - to accept the invitation from the BBC for one last hurrah! probably thought there were more ideas than there actually was. It went a series/season too far. Imo, the middle one, the Jimmy Saville critique, was excellent but it wasn’t really a Sherlock Homes story. That was almost in a genre of its own. With Top Gear, Sherlock and Bake Off all gone, the BBC are suddenly short of marque products … ---
**Author:** ![Alma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@Alma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alma)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/24 "2017-01-16T16:33:17Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > I only enjoyed the last few minutes, of Mary’s DVD. I didn’t enjoy the episode and I thought its weakest part was Mary’s DVD. There was no cause for it, they already did the wife from beyond the grave thing, and it ended up just being her telling them all about themselves (again). It’d be nice if John came to his own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/25 "2017-01-16T17:06:59Z")
The one thing (out of all of them) that I found hard to believe was Mycroft’s sudden squeamishness while Sherlock was solving the puzzles. This is a man who runs governments and is supposedly even less empathetic that Sherlock. So suddenly he can’t pull the trigger on a man who has let his insane sister literally endanger the world? he’s cringing with his back to the violence. I don’t think Mycroft craves violence, but I don’t think it would repel him, either. StG ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/26 "2017-01-16T17:12:15Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > The one thing (out of all of them) that I found hard to believe was Mycroft’s sudden squeamishness while Sherlock was solving the puzzles. This is a man who runs governments and is supposedly even less empathetic that Sherlock. So suddenly he can’t pull the trigger on a man who has let his insane sister literally endanger the world? he’s cringing with his back to the violence. I don’t think Mycroft craves violence, but I don’t think it would repel him, either. Also, he was too stupid to notice the Governor’s voice on that recording; Watson had to point it out to him; I failed to mention that one earlier, but it’s also part of the whole _good-heavens-this-entire-episode-runs-on-Mycroft-being-a-dimwit_ engine. ---
**Author:** ![Shawn1767](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/27 "2017-01-16T17:30:47Z")
Ugh, enough with the characters who are dead conveniently pre-recording messages from beyond the grave! Cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/28 "2017-01-16T17:42:31Z")
Tried hard to like it, but struggled in many places to fall into the story willingly. Would repay a second viewing - there was so much going on, that trying to follow the twists was too distracting from the performances. But! It had Jim Moriarty. Yes, as a super-villain he’s OTT, but he has pretty much lit up every scene he’s been in since the beginning, with a fantastically unstable evil persona. ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/29 "2017-01-16T17:43:20Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > At the end, when Euros was recaptured, I thought someone should have just walked up to her and shot her in the head. Given how dangerous she was shown to be, there was no reason to let her continue to live. That was my wish also. Blow her feckin’ head off. How did Eurus know Moriarty? Did she request 5 minutes with him, or did Mycroft decide it would be a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/30 "2017-01-16T17:56:08Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > That was my wish also. Blow her feckin’ head off. > > How did Eurus know Moriarty? Did she request 5 minutes with him, or did Mycroft decide it would be a good thing? Its just as likely that she arranged the three foiled terrorist attacks herself, in order to get leverage with Mycroft. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/31 "2017-01-16T17:57:01Z")
Utter crap. We got interrupted about 10 min from the end, and I’m not sure I care to watch the end. Just to begin - Sherlock tricked up Mycroft’s home for that elaborate stunt? Sure! Then, did we ever hear how Watson escaped getting shot in the face at the end of the last ep? By the time S?W leap out of the 2d floor of an exploding building with no apparent harm, I couldn’t care less about the ridiculous omnipotent supervillian. I’m tempted to rewatch the 1st season, to see if I can figure out why I really liked it… ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/32 "2017-01-16T18:00:58Z")
I don’t care what the official title of this subpar episode is, I’ll always think of it as “Sherlock Holmes and the Prisoner of Azkaban.” I guess they didn’t have the budget for dementors. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/33 "2017-01-16T18:16:19Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Just to begin - Sherlock tricked up Mycroft’s home for that elaborate stunt? Sure! Then, did we ever hear how Watson escaped getting shot in the face at the end of the last ep? When Sherlock and Watson showed up in Mycroft’s house and told him Eurus was loose: Sherlock: “She was John’s therapist.” John: “Shot me during a session.” (S, under his breath): “Only with a tranquilizer.” J: “Mm, still had ten minutes to go.” S: “We’ll see about a refund.” ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/34 "2017-01-16T18:54:31Z")
I dunno… If I had been in charge, I would’ve given Eurus and Moriarty their 5 minutes together… Then, I would’ve escorted Moriarty to the cell next to Eurus and let them have a few years to chat. No problem. But, I suppose, within the logic of their world, Eurus would’ve stopped solving Mycroft’s problems. Although, she might’ve been even more helpful since, in my scenario, they would have supplied her with a genius playmate. In any case, the part that I quite liked was Sherlock reaching out to touch the glass and touching the hand of Eurus instead. That was a wonderfully clever scene. The rest of it? Meh. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/35 "2017-01-16T19:28:58Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > But! It had Jim Moriarty. Yes, as a super-villain he’s OTT, but he has pretty much lit up every scene he’s been in since the beginning, with a fantastically unstable evil persona. I was not a fan of the character, but the scene where he was listening to “I Want to Break Free” and striking poses to the sound of the (recorded) adoring crowd was the highlight of the episode for me. Overall it was entertaining in a roller coaster sort of way, but there are probably actual roller coasters with better plots. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/36 "2017-01-16T19:42:31Z")
> [@DrForrester](#): > > I dunno… If I had been in charge, I would’ve given Eurus and Moriarty their 5 minutes together… Then, I would’ve escorted Moriarty to the cell next to Eurus and let them have a few years to chat. No problem. IIRC, they explicitly stated that they couldn’t yet prove Moriarty was a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/37 "2017-01-16T19:54:11Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, they explicitly stated that they couldn’t yet prove Moriarty was a criminal. Yes. You are quite correct. But, I’m not sure that it would’ve mattered in my scenario. Of all of the silly things that happened in this episode, Guilt By Association would hardly have been the most cruel or silly. Rarely are things as black & white as they are presented. We just go along with those definitions or suppositions because it’s easier. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/38 "2017-01-16T22:29:55Z")
Gatiss and Moffat may have done actual harm to their reputations with this last series of _Sherlock_. It’s easy to imagine them deciding that since the show was so popular there was no need to put much effort into it, nor to use up any actually good ideas they might happen to have. _The fans love to see Ben and Martin, and as long as we reference titles and characters from The Canon every few minutes, who will know we put in so little time writing these episodes?_ _We_ know, though. Do we ever. Among the ridiculous contrivances of this Final episode: the scene in which Sherlock, Watson, and Mycroft simply accept as given that either Watson or Mycroft must be shot dead. Of course one of them must be shot dead! There is a child in a jet who will die if we don’t! …aside from the unlikelihood that Eurus would have followed through with rewarding a Watson-or-Mycroft murder, even if the child-on-jet scenario had been real…aside from that, there is no way that the characters established in this show would have been fooled by an adult woman’s voice. They would never have taken that voice to be the voice of a child. The creators knew that and used an actual child’s voice for those scenes, of course. Well, it’s over. The whole enterprise of these last couple of seasons rested on an arrogant assumption of audience passivity in the face of lazy writing. Shame on Moffat and Gatiss. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/39 "2017-01-16T22:46:25Z")
Okay brits, this prison was fictional , where is the real one ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/40 "2017-01-16T23:00:16Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Okay brits, this prison was fictional , where is the real one There are four high-security psychiatric hospitals in the UK: Rampton, Broadmoor and Ashworth in England, and Carstairs in Scotland. None of these is on a secret island however, and they are run by the NHS rather than the prison service, so there’s fewer armed guards and helicopter landing pads than Sherrinford. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270.md?page=3)