# Sherlock January 15 2017 "The Final Problem" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 15, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270 "2017-01-15T22:44:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/41 "2017-01-17T00:57:03Z")
Started out interesting but grew more and more boring as it went along. And what’s up with all this “It’s all in your mind” stuff? It was lame the first time they did it, and there was no reason to return to it twice more. It didn’t help that the child on the jet scenario grew increasingly implausible. Holmes should have seen that at once, and especially when it was clear so many hours had passed. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/42 "2017-01-17T01:25:18Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Anyone else reminded of the final episode of The Prisoner? Not specifics, but the whole “We’ve got to do something crazy and spectacular to wrap up the show” vibe. > > Having said that, it was entertaining to watch, and I had nightmares about poor Redbeard last night. Watching it now. Man is this silly. Yes, got a Prisoner flash. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/43 "2017-01-17T01:47:37Z")
In the in-show timeline five years ago was just before the show began yes? The contrivance being that Moriarty’s complete arch-rivalry with Holmes was created by Euras? A very silly end to the series. Already commented on is that Mycroft has at least ordered many murders and likely seen the video I am sure and being so squeamish about pulling the trigger is stupid. But Watson too, the character as written to that point, would not have had such a hard time. Plot holes and inconsistencies? Well this show has been full of them the whole way. Early on it was clear that the interesting parts of this show were to be the style the acting and _the characters_. So that’s where the big fail is. Holmes’ character development was within universe just a bit silly (intrinsically perhaps as much a sociopath as Euras but one who had a childhood friend and who despite the trauma of that loss, albeit reprogrammed in his memory, developed over the course of the series relationships as an adult that moved him away from that edge). But Watson and Mycroft not only became props but different props than had been on the stage in the last acts. That’s laziness. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/44 "2017-01-17T01:52:34Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > The one thing (out of all of them) that I found hard to believe was Mycroft’s sudden squeamishness while Sherlock was solving the puzzles. This is a man who runs governments and is supposedly even less empathetic that Sherlock. So suddenly he can’t pull the trigger on a man who has let his insane sister literally endanger the world? he’s cringing with his back to the violence. I don’t think Mycroft craves violence, but I don’t think it would repel him, either. > > StG I disagree. Administering, even planning without much thought given to the human cost is one thing. Shooting a sobbing, unarmed man is another. ---
**Author:** ![Fair\_Rarity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fair_rarity/32/153_2.png) [@Fair\_Rarity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fair_Rarity)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/45 "2017-01-17T02:24:59Z")
> [@bibliophage](#): > > I don’t care what the official title of this subpar episode is, I’ll always think of it as “Sherlock Holmes and the Prisoner of Azkaban.” I guess they didn’t have the budget for dementors. She definitely had a Bellatrix Lestrange thing going on. Plus bonus Imperius Curse! It was just a mess all around. Cliches can be overlooked if the plot makes sense. Plot holes can be overlooked if it’s compelling and easy to understand. It can be complicated if it ultimately makes sense or makes a larger point. None of those things happened. It was, to me, a failure in everything… except maybe acting. I dunno. Maybe it was good. I was distracted by the shittiness of everything else to notice. The show worked best solving one relatively mundane mystery at a time, maybe touching on a bigger arc. The biggest failures were when it reached for something TOO beyond belief. Even the Christmas one from last year was ridiculous, but because it was SUPPOSED to be ridiculous and was a rather mundane murder, it was fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/46 "2017-01-17T04:03:19Z")
Mycroft’s squeamishness is the least implausible part. It’s one thing to order deaths or see the aftermath/ video. It’s quite another to witness it in all its gory. Mycroft, has always been portrayed as a desk man not a field agent. Watson, the veteran is an old hat so remains calm. Sherlock is a sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/47 "2017-01-17T04:13:14Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > There are four high-security psychiatric hospitals in the UK: Rampton, Broadmoor and Ashworth in England, and Carstairs in Scotland. None of these is on a secret island however, and they are run by the NHS rather than the prison service, so there’s fewer armed guards and helicopter landing pads than Sherrinford. And WTF was with the notion that a tiny sea-girt island would plausibly be given a name like “Sherrinford”? Place names traditionally end with “-ford” when they have, you know, an actual **ford** in them. I didn’t see no River Sherrin on that bitsy rock. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/48 "2017-01-17T04:22:41Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And WTF was with the notion that a tiny sea-girt island would plausibly be given a name like “Sherrinford”? Place names traditionally end with “-ford” when they have, you know, an actual **ford** in them. I didn’t see no River Sherrin on that bitsy rock. If it’s too secret then such a misleading name is apt. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/49 "2017-01-17T07:43:57Z")
I thought it odd that the little girl on the plane saw lights, then two hours later still sees lights from a city. Slow plane. Sherlock used to like the gravestones with incorrect dates when he was a child? So his sister put those gravestones there while she was still a child? Did I miss something? Who the heck records DVD messages like Mary’s \*just in case \*they die? I can’t be arsed to update my will. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/50 "2017-01-17T08:59:04Z")
“Holmes, you idiot, someone has stolen the glass!” ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/51 "2017-01-17T11:24:33Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I thought it odd that the little girl on the plane saw lights, then two hours later still sees lights from a city. Slow plane. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > It didn’t help that the child on the jet scenario grew increasingly implausible. Holmes should have seen that at once, and especially when it was clear so many hours had passed. Agreed. I can’t think of any even slightly plausible scenario in which a) Every single person passes out on a plane, except for one child who doesn’t need any oxygen or protective clothing (is this meant to be shades of MH370’s departure?) b) The cockpit doors are wide open with the pilots also unconscious and unrousable c) The autopilot is swinging wildly from side to side but the plane is apparently in stable flight d) There’s clear, continuous mobile phone reception to the ground e) Most of all, a smartphone allows you to stay connected and talking for hours. The battery should have died ages ago. Also, who would have just stayed huddled in the back talking into a phone for several hours, without a reply? This girl clearly isn’t smart enough to land the plane. It crashes. Case solved. Next! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/52 "2017-01-17T11:43:03Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Sherlock used to like the gravestones with incorrect dates when he was a child? So his sister put those gravestones there while she was still a child? Did I miss something? I think the idea is, the gravestones with incorrect dates were already there, and she used that existing sequence as the key to the cipher. Like, imagine I write 17 - 13 - 3 - 16. And imagine that, years later, someone else writes _“Father hates chocolate ice cream, and butter pecan is no treat for me; will you now bring rum raisin to your mother, or will you instead give her tutti frutti? Look to Pepper’s numbers, Pepper’s numbers, Pepper’s numbers; look to Pepper’s numbers, they alone hold the key.”_ What do you give her as proof you solved it? ---
**Author:** ![And\_his\_buzzer\_goes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/and_his_buzzer_goes/32/377_2.png) [@And\_his\_buzzer\_goes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/And_his_buzzer_goes)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/53 "2017-01-17T12:00:59Z")
I was already disappointed by the opening scene. I was convinced up until the end of it, it would be dreamsequence. Surely someone as Mycroft can rise above superstition and a funny light and soundshow. Apparently I was wrong about that part. Throughout the series, I appreciated the modern take on ancient stories and enjoyed the journey. What I did not expect was a throwback to a 90s horrorhouse flick and in the same process kill every nuance with “Eurus was behind everything”. I regret having finished this. I should have stepped out and done something useful with that time. ---
**Author:** ![DrForrester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@DrForrester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrForrester)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/54 "2017-01-17T13:45:50Z")
I don’t particularly appreciate the fact that all of the super-intelligent characters in the show were so socially incapable. Want to call it a family problem? Fine. That still leaves Moriarty. Someone up thread has already lamented the apparent absence of the Holmes Parents. They’d have certainly known about Eurus and Sherlock’s friend. They’d have absolutely been the people at the center of the disposition of Eurus. The suggestion in the show is that they thought the girl was dead because of some weirdness that the uncle and Mycroft hatched. Not a chance. Mother Holmes, in her previous appearance in the show, was revealed to be a brilliant mathematician. ACD’s Moriarty was a maths professor. I had thought that she was likely either “running” Moriarty’s schemes as a means of amusing her children or, possibly, at least monitoring the lives of her children. That’s not such a stretch. The socially normal super-genius mother monitors & guides the lives of her three super-genius socially incapable children? It sounds like the compassionate maternal thing to do. But, they stole every ounce of her Gravitas when it was revealed that she’d been tricked into believing that Eurus was dead. That’s why I say: Pffffffft!!! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/55 "2017-01-17T15:48:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > In the in-show timeline five years ago was just before the show began yes? The contrivance being that Moriarty’s complete arch-rivalry with Holmes was created by Euras? Mycroft said Eurus was interested in him because of his rivalry with Sherlock. So I assume it happened sometime in between The Great Game and The Reichenbach Fall. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/56 "2017-01-17T16:08:54Z")
When tallying up Mycrofts mistakes, let’s be sure to note that sometimes after he let his insane sister chat with Moriarty, he then related to Moriarty a bunch of Sherlock’s personal info, per Hound of Baskervilles. A few good bits in this episode, like the Moriarty fake out with the helicopter. But over all, it was pretty bad. I agree with **Fair Rarity** ’s take. I can forgive quite a bit if it’s fun or clever enough, but this was neither. I don’t get why they kept following Euros’s game. First two games, she killed all the victims, despite Sherlock solving the riddle. At that point, she’s demonstrated that there are no right answers. Don’t play a rigged game, boys. The show fell victime to Buffy syndrome. We loved monster of the week shows. Constantly raising the stakes leads to viewers no longer caring about the outcome, because there’s just too much. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/57 "2017-01-17T19:08:59Z")
A very, very disappointing end to the season and quite possibly the series. Farfetched and with plot holes aplenty. _Saw_ meets _Sherlock_… hey, it’s _Sawlock_! > [@Stanislaus](#): > > …Oh, and also send them a grenade that could quite easily have killed them all thus making the whole of the foregoing futile… Exactly. The shot of them leaping out of the windows, just ahead of the fireball (which even made the trailer!) was 100% Hollywood garbage. > [@Stanislaus](#): > > …The same goes, incidentally, for the Molly Hooper scene… Yes. And Sherlock was overthinking it - all he had to do to get her to say “I love you” was to tell her something like, “I’m developing a comparative database of voiceprints. Would you mind repeating the following phrases for me? Excellent - thank you. Right, then, to start: ‘Betwixt and between’… Good. ‘Pass me the crossword’… ‘I’ll have the salmon’… ‘I love you’…” > [@Stanislaus](#): > > …There are presumably search parties. No-one thinks to check the nearby well… Of course not. And Watson is chained in place until a rope is tossed down, at which point he can be lifted right out. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > At the end, when Euros was recaptured, I thought someone should have just walked up to her and shot her in the head. Given how dangerous she was shown to be, there was no reason to let her continue to live. I had the same thought. > [@Shawn1767](#): > > Ugh, enough with the characters who are dead conveniently pre-recording messages from beyond the grave! Cheap. And overdone. > [@DrForrester](#): > > …In any case, the part that I quite liked was Sherlock reaching out to touch the glass and touching the hand of Eurus instead. That was a wonderfully clever scene… Agreed - didn’t quite understand how she pulled it off, though. > [@Declan](#): > > Okay brits, this prison was fictional , where is the real one Been to Azkaban lately? Lovely ocean views… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/58 "2017-01-17T19:36:17Z")
What the hell did I just watch? That made no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![snoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@snoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snoe)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/59 "2017-01-17T21:28:48Z")
I, too, thought it was pretty much garbage. (A few moments where Eurus was faking psychological insight were interesting, and I did enjoy Moriarty’s landing.) This is definitely a divisive episode. I’m in the “it’s a Sherlock Holmes show, let’s see him solve mysteries!” camp. Those people tend to hate it, from what I’ve seen. There’s also a “explore the Holmes-Watson dynamic” group, and they seem to be kinder in their judgments - though there are some negative Nellies there, too. Mostly, I’m disappointed. I thought the writing was very lazy and there wasn’t any character-driven payoff to speak of. But it’s interesting to hear from people who liked it. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/60 "2017-01-17T21:36:38Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Yes. And Sherlock was overthinking it - all he had to do to get her to say “I love you” was to tell her something like, “I’m developing a comparative database of voiceprints. Would you mind repeating the following phrases for me? Excellent - thank you. Right, then, to start: ‘Betwixt and between’… Good. ‘Pass me the crossword’… ‘I’ll have the salmon’… ‘I love you’…” That’s one good solution. The other good one would never have occurred to Sherlock. “Molly, I’m so sorry that I haven’t been able to face my feelings for you. I can’t keep you at arms length any longer. I love you, Molly Hooper.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270.md?page=4)