# Sherlock January 15 2017 "The Final Problem" (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 15, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270 "2017-01-15T22:44:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/101 "2017-01-22T13:40:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Eh, you could argue that it was in character. It was still astoundingly stupid for a career criminal. I remember, watching that episode, that as soon as he bragged that he had nothing written down, my first thought was, “Cool! Now they can shoot him.” I really don’t understand why everyone was so shocked that Sherlock did exactly that two minutes later. It was the logical thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/102 "2017-01-22T20:47:41Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > The location used was St Catherine’s Fort, off the Welsh coast near Tenby. > > T thought the whole thing was self-indulgent twaddle, which could have been trimmed to sixty minutes. The plot bore resemblance to a 1970s _Doctor Who_ one, where The Master has been imprisoned on an offshore fort, guarded by people who are supposedly immune to his influence, and he influences the Governor instead. That was \* Doctor Who and the Sea Devils \*. I saw it in 1973/4 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/103 "2017-01-23T00:21:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It was still astoundingly stupid for a career criminal. I remember, watching that episode, that as soon as he bragged that he had nothing written down, my first thought was, “Cool! Now they can shoot him.” I really don’t understand why everyone was so shocked that Sherlock did exactly that two minutes later. It was the logical thing to do. Well, the problem is that to make it perfectly safe, he’d have to set up a deadman’s switch, which would have meant either leaving the blackmail stuff in the care of somebody else, to be released in case of death (meaning they could have had his power if they were less than perfectly trustworthy) or, alternatively, on a computer somewhere that he’d need to ping once in a while else it’d spew its contents to the nearest press inbox. In which case that computer would need 'net access, which means it could get hacked, meaning somebody else could have his power. I don’t think it’s absolutely out of the question that Magnusson was just too jealous of his power to ever risk losing any. I would also guess that his M.O. included promising (and possibly even doling out) information to this or that or even _all_ secret services on the planet (or promised not to publish their fuck-ups, either way) to ensure they kept an eye on him and deal with what risks he foresaw and threats he identified. Isn’t it possible he just didn’t think Sherlock had it in him to shoot him - he’s one of the good guys, right ? And an Englishman to boot ! ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/104 "2017-01-23T15:13:17Z")
So Eurus clearly did not shoot that mans wife right? she was blocking the view of the camera when she shot and then they focus on the bullet hole through the window. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/105 "2017-01-23T16:50:51Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Isn’t it possible he just didn’t think Sherlock had it in him to shoot him - he’s one of the good guys, right ? And an Englishman to boot ! You won’t get very far as a criminal if you assume people wouldn’t be willing to hurt you. And a professional blackmailer would never reveal his most important secrets just to gloat. Besides, Sherlock was already known to be a bit of a loose cannon who didn’t give a damn about propriety or, for that matter, the law. The blackmailer had to have known that - he knew everything - and certainly should have considered the possibility that he might do something like that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/106 "2017-01-26T01:38:06Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Well, the problem is that to make it perfectly safe, he’d have to set up a deadman’s switch, which would have meant either leaving the blackmail stuff in the care of somebody else, to be released in case of death (meaning they could have had his power if they were less than perfectly trustworthy) or, alternatively, on a computer somewhere that he’d need to ping once in a while else it’d spew its contents to the nearest press inbox. In which case that computer would need 'net access, which means it could get hacked, meaning somebody else could have his power. > > I don’t think it’s absolutely out of the question that Magnusson was just too jealous of his power to ever risk losing any. But why _mention_ that? Let’s say you’re right. Let’s say that Magnusson, when struggling to choose between human assistants and hackable computers, decided instead to simply keep the whole enchilada committed to memory – while making it _look_ rather like he maintains a big fine vault on the grounds of his expensive estate. This, predictably, gets Sherlock to lug Mycroft’s stolen laptop there – as if to bargain for entry to the vault. But that’s seen through; he clearly brought contraband so the authorities would arrive with a reason to search the place – and, well, hey: if they find significantly similar contraband in the vault, they’ll catch Magnusson red-handed to earn Sherlock a pardon and a medal instead of jail time or whatever. Just before the authorities arrive, a gloating Magnusson reveals that no documents are on the premises. Does he add that they’re _elsewhere,_ with a human assistant? Does he instead add that they’re elsewhere, on a _computer_ he pings so it won’t spew its contents to the press? Does he instead add _nothing,_ saying no documents are on the premises and just smirking as helicopters approach while Holmes and Watson wonder whether the documents are with an assistant in Atlanta or a computer in Copenhagen? Does he, in short, opt for Lie #1 or Lie #2 or simple silence? Or does he follow up his reveal with a _fourth,_ and _unutterably stupid_, option? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/107 "2017-01-26T19:25:34Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Or does he follow up his reveal with a _fourth,_ and _unutterably stupid_, option? Not to mention that while during a previous encounter he had had his goons carefully search Holmes and Watson for weapons, he just forgot to this time. That was stupid stupid stupid stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/108 "2017-01-26T19:37:39Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Not to mention that while during a previous encounter he had had his goons carefully search Holmes and Watson for weapons, he just forgot to this time. > > That was stupid stupid stupid stupid. Or perhaps lazy lazy lazy lazy. (Of the writers, I mean.) The whole thing was contrived as can be. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/109 "2017-01-29T13:35:26Z")
Unlike the previous two episodes this one started out promising. The went downhill. And kept on going. What a mess. So many random bits and pieces chopped up and put together without any sense of continuity. It feels like scriptwriting by committee. During the sequence of room challenges you see things coming a mile away. Don’t do this if you can’t be clever about it. By the last third I just didn’t care anymore. Oh, and the jumping out of the windows to avoid a suspiciously huge flame from a grenade. Right. I’m sure both Watson and Holmes were saved by two dump trucks of sand driving by. The writers need to be tested in a series of room challenges where the object is to come up with a plausible but novel way of moving on to the next scene. Failure to do so leads to a lifetime of being chained to the desk in the writers’ room of a reality show. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/110 "2017-01-29T13:43:36Z")
Heh. I follow Mark Gatiss’s twitter feed, and after this episode I went there to read his followers’ reactions. One person posted a one-word tweet: “Norbury.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/111 "2017-01-29T14:02:42Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The writers need to be tested in a series of room challenges where the object is to come up with a plausible but novel way of moving on to the next scene. Failure to do so leads to a lifetime of being chained to the desk in the writers’ room of a reality show. Let that be a lesson to all aspiring writers out there: story is structure. You can write terrific dialog and craft wonderful scenes and still have none of it work because it doesn’t come together into a coherent, logical story. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/112 "2017-01-29T14:09:37Z")
I thought the episode was ridiculous, but: (a) I think pretty much all of the episodes have been ridiculous, starting with the guy in the first episode with the super-power of making people commit suicide, and (b) I think the source material is often ridiculous, so it’s hard to complain that the adaptation is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/113 "2017-01-29T14:24:09Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I think pretty much all of the episodes have been ridiculous, starting with the guy in the first episode with the super-power of making people commit suicide In fairness, _“hold a kidnapped woman at gunpoint and tell her to swallow a pill”_ doesn’t really seem to count as a super-power, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/114 "2017-01-30T01:00:59Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Or perhaps lazy lazy lazy lazy. (Of the writers, I mean.) > > The whole thing was contrived as can be. This. It’s like they watched the trainwreck that was SPECTRE and thought, “That’s the very pinnacle of Bond films. Let’s make Sherlock just like that.” Basing an entire story on newly-manufactured childhood trauma, a hidden lair preposterous even by the standards of the genre, impossibly adept supervillains with ins at every level of civil society, a finale based around a ludicrous and, therefore, ultimately uninteresting haunted house. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/115 "2017-01-30T14:08:35Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > In fairness, _“hold a kidnapped woman at gunpoint and tell her to swallow a pill”_ doesn’t really seem to count as a super-power, IMHO. Didn’t he claim he could infallibly predict which pill his victim would select, so he could make sure he’d never get poisoned? Though he probably just got lucky 4 times in a row. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/116 "2017-01-30T14:30:45Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Oh, and also send them a grenade that could quite easily have killed them all thus making the whole of the foregoing futile. What really pinged my WTFometer was Mycroft immediately identifying the “patient grenade” right down to the three-second delay. So, this is a standard device? There’s that much of a tactical niche for a “kill 'em all, but only after giving 'em a slim but sporting chance to dive for cover” weapon? :rolleyes: The closest comparison I can think of is the “thirty-second bomb” in _Starship Troopers_, and that actually had a sensible purpose (force everyone to clear out with minimal risk of actual casualties) for which it was reasonably well designed (enough time to actually get clear, with explicit warning). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/117 "2017-01-30T15:35:05Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > What really pinged my WTFometer was Mycroft immediately identifying the “patient grenade” right down to the three-second delay. So, this is a standard device? There’s that much of a tactical niche for a “kill 'em all, but only after giving 'em a slim but sporting chance to dive for cover” weapon? :rolleyes: It’s an Acme special! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/118 "2017-01-30T16:01:44Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Didn’t he claim he could infallibly predict which pill his victim would select, so he could make sure he’d never get poisoned? Though he probably just got lucky 4 times in a row. Or he was just a liar. I mean, we only see his interaction with Sherlock, which obviously doesn’t go the way the other ones did – in that Sherlock realizes that the guy is bluffing, in that he won’t and can’t actually fire that gun. So all we _know_ is (a) that gunman is a bluffing bluffer who bluffs, which is much like being a lying liar who lies; and (b) he said a bunch of stuff that might have been a bluff or a lie or whatever. Imagine he pointed that gun at the others and said _I’ll shoot you, and you’ll have a 100% chance of dying – unless you instead take one of these pills, for a 50% chance of living._ And they did, and they died, because he’s a liar and every pill was poison. And now that terminally ill gunman is offering Sherlock a different bet – but, since he’s a liar, he says he’s done this a bunch of times before and won. Assume the bluffer is a liar and no powers are necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/119 "2017-01-30T19:45:51Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > This. > > It’s like they watched the trainwreck that was SPECTRE and thought, “That’s the very pinnacle of Bond films. Let’s make Sherlock just like that.” > > Basing an entire story on newly-manufactured childhood trauma, a hidden lair preposterous even by the standards of the genre, impossibly adept supervillains with ins at every level of civil society, a finale based around a ludicrous and, therefore, ultimately uninteresting haunted house. You could be correct (that Moffat and Gatiss were impressed by “SPECTRE”). Certainly each has writing credits from years past in which to take pride, so it’s not as though they have no judgment in these matters. Could be a case of their deciding: ‘this [_Sherlock_] is a pre-sold, guaranteed hit—so why should we knock ourselves out coming up with a satisfying and coherent plot? The fans will eat it up even if it’s rubbish!’ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270/120 "2017-01-30T19:52:01Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > You could be correct (that Moffat and Gatiss were impressed by “SPECTRE”). Certainly each has writing credits from years past in which to take pride, so it’s not as though they have no judgment in these matters. Could be a case of their deciding: ‘this [_Sherlock_] is a pre-sold, guaranteed hit—so why should we knock ourselves out coming up with a satisfying and coherent plot? The fans will eat it up even if it’s rubbish!’ The thing is, it’s also typical of Moffat’s tenure as _Doctor Who_ showrunner - lots of big ideas that aren’t thought all the way through, with episodes consisting of great scenes that rarely come together into a coherent story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-15-2017-the-final-problem-open-spoilers/777270.md?page=7)