# Sherlock January 8 2017 "The Lying Detective" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 8, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650 "2017-01-08T20:32:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/61 "2017-01-12T15:46:22Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > The “blunt instrument” bit is a quote from M. Which also means that they’re in the Bond-verse. And therefore, because if A=B and B=C then A=C, Doctor Who and James Bond exist in the same universe, which was created by Tommy Westphall. Q.E.D. And they’re in a city in England called “London,” which means they’re also in the Bridget Jones universe! [QUOTE=up\_the\_junction] The references to Savile were so numerous, the critique so sharp it made my hair stand on end - hen I get a chance I hope to list as much as I noted, it certainly includes: [/QUOTE] I would say the similarities were so blatant is barely qualifies as a “reference.” It was an open editorial. I’m Canadian, and it was plainly obvious who they were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/62 "2017-01-12T15:58:17Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I have to say I was, at first, a bit nonplussed at the reveal in the end—it feels just so, I don’t know, escalated: so Sherlock is good at predicting, but Moriarty is better, and so’s Mycroft, and Euros, and basically, everybody already planned for all this since kindergarten! I mean, really, Euros knew to put a handgun in her bag in order to get Sherlock to accept the case, because she knew he’d deduce, in his addled state, that she was going to kill herself otherwise? Not to mention the dirty hem, and so on… The problem here, as well as other crime dramas, is that as soon as the latest criminal mastermind is finally defeated, after multiple episodes, the writers have to come up with another, more evil and more brilliant criminal mastermind. So after Moriarty died, the show introduces Sherlock’s sister; just as brilliant but evil. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/63 "2017-01-12T16:54:40Z")
Because of the discussions I’m seeing here about Jimmy Saville, I looked him up on youtube to see what you guys are talking about. Ooh, yuck. I could only stand to watch and listen to him for about one minute. What a vile, creepy guy. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/64 "2017-01-12T17:53:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I would say the similarities were so blatant is barely qualifies as a “reference.” It was an open editorial. I’m Canadian, and it was plainly obvious who they were talking about. They could have not been more blatant if they had written “inspired by Saville” on Toby Jones shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/65 "2017-01-12T18:11:47Z")
I detested him at a time when it was neither profitable nor popular. However the inexplicable decision of the BBC to make it seem he was suitable viewing, plus the mindless adulation of teenage girls, plus his friendship with some powerful people, such as Margaret Thatcher who loved him so much she kept trying to get him a knighthood — eventually done in her final year of power ( this is not why he was ‘His Excellency’ reserved generally for ambassadors and George Washington, but since like Rupert Murdoch he is famous as a Papal Knight of Saint Gregory the Great ) — meant he was always _there_ whilst he was alive; much like the mad old woman herself, a perpetual irritant. On the other hand, he never actually _killed_ his victims. And in all the litany of his probably exaggerated exploits the wonder remains that anyone over the age of seven not severely mentally ill would allow him within a ten foot radius. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/66 "2017-01-12T19:23:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > The problem here, as well as other crime dramas, is that as soon as the latest criminal mastermind is finally defeated, after multiple episodes, the writers have to come up with another, more evil and more brilliant criminal mastermind. So after Moriarty died, the show introduces Sherlock’s sister; just as brilliant but evil. Well, they had the guy who Sherlock shot in the head. A somewhat more clever plan, which I think is possible yet, is simply to prove Moriarty wasn’t really an evil genius at all, but was someone else’s puppet. I’m personally fond of this idea, because, let’s be honest, Moriarty was a shitty villain. He was supposed to be this sooper dooper criminal mastermind but he was like 32 years old and didn’t look sane enough to tie his own shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/67 "2017-01-12T19:24:20Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I can assure viewers that British police do not customarily halt a willing stream-of-confessionness to resume after a good night’s sleep… Yeah, that was a bit much. I’m sure Lestrade could’ve called in another detective to take over and continue the interrogation. Strike while the iron is hot! > [@Gukumatz](#): > > …Halfway through I was genuinely expecting it to be Moriarty in full-on body suit… Heh. I wondered that, too. > [@Fair\_Rarity](#): > > …It made me kind of chuckle about the studies that supposedly say one identifies people of one’s own race better, as other races do tend to “look all alike” in certain circumstances. I’m a white woman of a certain age and they ALL looked indistinguishable to me. My wife, who is also a white woman and pretty observant, likewise missed (as did I) that Sherlock’s companion for a nighttime ramble with chips, the girl on the bus and the therapist were all one and the same person. > [@teela\_brown](#): > > …Therefore, [the note] was at Eurus’s place of residence that it was stashed in a book, pinned to a board, absorbed cooking smells, was exposed to sunlight in a narrow room (this last sequence of deduction is everything I love best about the show Sherlock - brilliantly done and elegant)… Yes! Best part of the episode, I thought. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I suppose I’ll keep watching it - at least for awhile. But I’m not finding it entertaining. I guess I prefer my entertainment to feel less like homework. I had a similar reaction. I liked it more the longer it went, but I had an unaccustomed feeling of impatience and boredom too often. And I just didn’t buy that Smith’s daughter and boardroom pals would passively agree to be dosed with a memory-destroying drug. > [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Okay okay okay but check this out: > > There’s a screencap - when the camera pans over to the mantle where Sherlock’s knife is stabbing the envelope with Mary’s DVD in it…one of the other items on it is a letter from Torchwood, with the Torchwood logo on it. > > This places Sherlock in the Doctor Who Universe. > Doctor Who is in the Tommy Westphall Universe. > > …Which also means that they’re in the Bond-verse. And therefore, because if A=B and B=C then A=C, Doctor Who and James Bond exist in the same universe, which was created by Tommy Westphall. Q.E.D. Ooo - nice work! Here’s a _Radio Times_ article on the Savile connection (I’m not British; I remember reading about the scandal but hadn’t made a connection to the Culverton Smith character): [Toby Jones's Sherlock series 4 villain Culverton Smith has clear parallels with Jimmy Savile | Radio Times](http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-01-12/the-shadow-of-jimmy-savile-looms-over-sherlock-as-it-introduces-a-diabolical-and-disgusting-new-villain) And here’s more on Euros: > **[The origins of Sherlock’s Euros – and how her arrival has been foreshadowed...](https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/drama/the-origins-of-sherlocks-euros-and-how-her-arrival-has-been-foreshadowed-since-series-three/)** > > SPOILERS: The Greek mythology behind the new character, and the references to her coming that you may have missed > **[Anemoi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemoi)** > > In ancient Greek religion and myth, the Anemoi (Greek: Ἄνεμοι, "Winds") were wind gods who were each ascribed a cardinal direction from which their respective winds came (see Classical compass winds), and were each associated with various seasons and weather conditions. They were the progeny of the goddess of the dawn Eos and her husband, the god of the dusk, Astraeus. > The earliest attestation of the word in Greek and of the worship of the winds by the Greeks, are perhaps the Mycenaean Greek wor... ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/68 "2017-01-12T19:28:20Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > The “blunt instrument” bit is a quote from M. Which also means that they’re in the Bond-verse. And therefore, because if A=B and B=C then A=C, Doctor Who and James Bond exist in the same universe, which was created by Tommy Westphall. Q.E.D. ‘blunt instrument’ is ubiquitous. Focusjng in on Bond is a bit … ambitious. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/69 "2017-01-12T19:46:17Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > ‘blunt instrument’ is ubiquitous. Focusjng in on Bond is a bit … ambitious. True enough. Though Mark Gatiss has confirmed that it was intended that way. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/70 "2017-01-12T20:27:55Z")
That’s certainly how I read it. It’s a pretty famous Bond line (although I can’t find it on YouTube). ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/71 "2017-01-12T22:09:47Z")
A lot of my comments about the previous episode apply here. Too much rapid fire cutting and weirdness in the first part. Got settled in better in the second. Was leading to a satisfactory ending (saw one “twist” coming, of course). But then blammo, they dropped the ball again. Oh, and having a guy talking with his dead wife? Real original there guys. How is tracking Sherlock’s cell phone going to give you the spacing _between_ the letters??? Was he putting it into an RF blocking wallet or something? So, Lestrade is just a token character now. Well, that’s just peachy. … Not. All in all, maybe 20 minutes of this was enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/72 "2017-01-13T04:40:14Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > …All in all, maybe 20 minutes of this was enjoyable. You might be a bit on the generous side there. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/73 "2017-01-13T14:24:50Z")
Here’s the RT [rankings](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/sherlock) of _Sherlock_ seasons: Season 1: 100% Season 2: 100% Season 3: 97% Season 4: 59% Critic inertia suggests the latter number is too generous. (Esp. among “top critics”.) They’ve eaten the giant rat of Sumatra this time. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/74 "2017-01-13T15:11:43Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > Because of the discussions I’m seeing here about Jimmy Saville, I looked him up on youtube to see what you guys are talking about. > [@AK84](#): > > They could have not been more blatant if they had written “inspired by Saville” on Toby Jones shirt. So that’s both ends of the spectrum covered … ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/75 "2017-01-13T15:19:13Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > A lot of my comments about the previous episode apply here. Too much rapid fire cutting and weirdness in the first part. Got settled in better in the second. Was leading to a satisfactory ending (saw one “twist” coming, of course). But then blammo, they dropped the ball again. > > Oh, and having a guy talking with his dead wife? Real original there guys. It’s also not original to have detectives solve murders, or have people point guns at each other, or have (insert fifty things.) There are no new things under the sun. As a mechanism to demonstrate John’s inability to move on, it works really well… or could have if it had been VERY judiciously used. When we first see the dream-Mary, it’s shocking and creepy. It really worked. If we’d only seen the dream-Mary two or three times it would have been a highly effective trick. But instead she’s in the show more or less from start to finish, doing funny things like saying Sherlock should wear the deerstalker hat. It’s like the shark in Jaws, or the T-rex in Jurassic Park; if you just show the audience a little, it works better than if you show them too much. Introducing John’s iimagining of Mary once and using it maybe once or twice more would have worked. It would have allowed Martin Freeman, a world class actor, the latitude to play scenes where he feels her presence _but she’s not visible to us._ That would have been far more emotionally powerful than having her mugging in every shot. She was on camera more than Number Six in “Battlestar Galactica,” and she is actually supposed to be an angel of God. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/76 "2017-01-13T16:19:36Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If we’d only seen the dream-Mary two or three times it would have been a highly effective trick… (SNIPPED BY LASCIEL) That would have been far more emotionally powerful than having her mugging in every shot. She was on camera more than Number Six in “Battlestar Galactica,” and she is actually supposed to be an angel of God. I wonder if she’s contracted to have a certain number of shots or scenes or minutes onscreen per episode, and it was more trouble than it was worth to try and re-negotiate? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/77 "2017-01-14T20:35:15Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Here’s the RT [rankings](https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/sherlock) of _Sherlock_ seasons: > > Season 1: 100% > Season 2: 100% > Season 3: 97% > Season 4: 59% > > Critic inertia suggests the latter number is too generous. (Esp. among “top critics”.) The writers know Doctor Watson’s blog has – well, gone _downhill_ a bit, hasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![AdamM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e19adc/32.png) [@AdamM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdamM)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/78 "2017-01-15T00:41:54Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > All in all, maybe 20 minutes of this was enjoyable. I think that a lot of Sherlock’s popularity is due to the two leads - their acting ability, and the fact that their fame has increased so much during the show’s run, through the other projects they’ve worked on. There are certain parallels with Benedict’s excellent radio show “Cabin Pressure”, which began airing in 2008 when he was (relatively) unknown and ended in 2014 when he was internationally famous - a fact which massively raised the profile of the show. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650/79 "2017-01-18T04:15:17Z")
Like Dr. Watson I have to confess. I have developed an incredible crush for Amanda Abbington, or at least, her playing Mary. Man, do I like they she speaks, her eyes, her expressions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-january-8-2017-the-lying-detective/776650.md?page=3)