# Sherlock - The Abominable Bride (spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895 "2016-01-01T13:46:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/21 "2016-01-02T15:41:53Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > (it meant that the guy was blackmailing people without any evidence; if anyone called him on it, he was out of business) I used to think that was the case with Magnussen, but I think the whole idea behind him and his ownership of a worldwide news empire was that he knew who to call to get the evidence. Not to mention publishing the rumors, even without evidence, could still do tremendous damage. All he had to do was to follow the links until he found the person with the right “pressure point” and then move back up. For example, with the Minister, he is threatening not just her career but her husband’s freedom. How likely that he could find the girl and buy those letters and pictures off of her? And then splash them all over the front page of his media? As for _The Abominable Bride_, I enjoyed it as a romp. I find sometimes it is better with Moffett to check the plot logic at the door and just enjoy the ride. I did find the character’s tones were a bit off. The fact it was all in Sherlock’s head neatly explained that, they were all acting as Sherlock sees them. I am glad that Moriarty is really dead. I was afraid Gatiss and Moffett believe they killed off Moriarty too soon and would try to find some way to bring him back to life in the real world. I think he serves well as a surreal creature of the mind palace. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/22 "2016-01-02T17:15:35Z")
Am I the only one that expected the Moriarty death to be explained as “twins”? I thought twins was the Chekov’s Gun of this episode. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/23 "2016-01-02T17:15:40Z")
I enjoyed the first half or so of this one, but ultimately found it rather disappointing. I wasn’t that interested in watching an _Inception_ knock-off, the 21st century plot barely inched forward, and it didn’t seem to me that the 19th century mystery was even really solved. Moriarty showing up as the Bride and making snarky remarks about the costumes and Gothic atmosphere suggested that this was just a product of Sherlock’s imagination. Imaginary or not, I also found it rather troubling that a Victorian feminist group filled the role played by the Ku Klux Klan (!) in the Doyle story “The Five Orange Pips”. They even wore Klan-style robes. Both Mycroft and Sherlock said that their cause was a righteous one, but while normally I’d be happy to have a pro-feminist message on this show it was rather undermined by depicting these women as a bunch of murderers. Although we were _told_ that Mr. Ricoletti and Sir Eustace treated Mrs. Ricoletti cruelly, IIRC we weren’t shown any evidence of this or given any justification for the numerous copycat murders. I assume the _intended_ moral was something like “Women deserve the same rights and opportunities as men” but it came across more like “Women are cunning enough to get away with murdering men, so better to keep them happy.” ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/24 "2016-01-02T18:20:24Z")
Once again, enjoyable moments marred by incoherence and lack of resolution, or just plain barmy deus ex machina. Mary magically knows where the secret society is – or she’s part of it, or something. Killing men ‘who deserve it’ is just okay. All in the name of Women’s Lib or something. Misandry at its finest. I thought the episode peaked right near the beginning, when Sherlock & Watson arrive at 221B after investigating a dismemberment, while carrying many bits of luggage. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/25 "2016-01-02T21:12:36Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Am I the only one that expected the Moriarty death to be explained as “twins”? It’s never twins! I like it on the whole and will probably like it more with subsequent viewings, just like with _The Sign of Three_. I liked: Fat Mycroft. “Tick tock, tick tock!” Holmes and Watson on stakeout, and Watson trying to interrogate Holmes about his love life. Lestrade with muttonchop sideburns. The scene of staging of 221b’s sitting room in the street. “I was barely in the dog one.” The newspaper article yoga trance scene. I disliked: Sign language at the Diogenes Club. Stupid. Holmes didn’t know Hooper was female? Yeah, right. Double stupid. Moriarty didn’t seem like the deadly psychopath that he used to be. Now he seems like a campy tart. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/26 "2016-01-02T21:27:25Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > I disliked: > > Sign language at the Diogenes Club. Stupid. > Holmes didn’t know Hooper was female? Yeah, right. Double stupid. Actually very realistic. People of the time took gender cues from different things than what we do, most notably their clothes. A woman in man’s clothing would be assumed to be a man. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/27 "2016-01-02T21:29:12Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > Now he seems like a campy tart. Perhaps based on Mark Gatiss? #meow ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/28 "2016-01-02T21:36:32Z")
I forgot one that I especially liked. “Merry Christmas.” “Merry Christmas.” “Merry Christmas.” “Merry Christmas. Thank God that’s over.” ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/29 "2016-01-02T21:53:54Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > Holmes didn’t know Hooper was female? Yeah, right. Double stupid. Sherlock has trouble relating to Molly in the 21st century, never mind when he’s in an OD Victorian fever dream. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/30 "2016-01-02T22:37:28Z")
I liked that Sherlock’s mental version of Watson is not only actually smart but someone who he relies on to save him and to challenge his self-delusions. And I wonder what this is supposed to imply about what Moriarty’s plan is, especially given that he is deceased and all. The Moriarty computer virus? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/31 "2016-01-02T23:04:41Z")
The whole Victorian section was modern Sherlock’s drug induced dream - including the scene with Hooper. He hallucinated himself _not_ noticing that Hooper was a woman and then also hallucinated Watson, noticing. Holmes sees everything, including the things he doesn’t see. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/32 "2016-01-03T01:33:37Z")
It worked for me. I thought it started out rather slow, and a bit silly. But I liked when it became clear that it was a continuation of the storyline, not a one-off fantasy episode. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/33 "2016-01-03T03:31:22Z")
Why was Mycroft fat? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/34 "2016-01-03T04:21:13Z")
I liked it very much. Some great allusions to earlier Conan Doyle stories, wonderful interplay between Holmes and Watson, appropriately creepy, a nice job keeping us off our balance, and a nifty conclusion. Also reminded me, in its basic concept, of this ST:TNG episode (also, perhaps not at all coincidentally, involving Moriarty - well, a particular _version_ of Moriarty, anyway): [http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ship\_in\_a\_Bottle\_(episode)](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Ship_in_a_Bottle_(episode)) > [@TexCat](#): > > Why was Mycroft fat? To be true to the original stories (blame the illustrator!): [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Mycroft\_Holmes.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Mycroft_Holmes.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/35 "2016-01-03T04:22:04Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Why was Mycroft fat? Vindictive imagination? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/36 "2016-01-03T04:24:54Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Why was Mycroft fat? He’s more than a bit portly in the books. But this was about how 21st century Sherlock really sees the people he knows - John is loyal, brave and clever but really quite hidebound, he doesn’t really see Molly at all (but he knows that’s a failing he has), he’s still got a huge thing for Irene etc. Mycroft, well, Mycroft is the one who just sits in the background, being smarter dammit. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/37 "2016-01-03T04:57:47Z")
I enjoyed it! It was cheeky and fun and had some shout outs to the original works. The low point for me really was the reveal of the cult and the explanation of how the murders were done. Also felt like they shoehorned Pepper’s Ghost in there. But whatever. I tune in to television for fun and that episode fit the bill! ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/38 "2016-01-03T06:13:54Z")
I’ll admit I haven’t read the books, but I got many of the other references… what was the waterfall all about? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/39 "2016-01-03T06:33:51Z")
Doyle killed off Holmes by having him and Moriarity topple over Reichenbach Falls. The the public was pissed that Holmes was dead so the character was brought back and more stories were written. Anyway he died going over the falls. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895/40 "2016-01-03T06:38:31Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Doyle killed off Holmes by having him and Moriarity topple over Reichenbach Falls. The the public was pissed that Holmes was dead so the character was brought back and more stories were written. > > Anyway he died going over the falls. Thank you very much! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sherlock-the-abominable-bride-spoilers-as-it-airs/741895.md?page=3)