# Sherman's march to the sea...why so significant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 9, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133 "2022-02-09T00:17:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/21 "2022-02-09T14:46:28Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > There is definitely a valid point here, but a Union victory was far from guaranteed. I agree it’s a massive oversimplification, but wars are won by essentially three things, population, industrial capacity, and a willingness to fight. The Union had the South outmatched heavily in the first two categories, and the assault on Sumpter gave them the third. Had they not done so, a negotiated secession would have been more likely, IMHO. There were times when the Union’s morale to keep up the war was low, but if nothing else, our human tendency to throw good money after bad would have kept the Union in the war to even lower levels of morale than actually experienced. I think it would have required pretty much the South’s equivalent to Sherman’s march to get the Union to sue for peace. If Lee had marched up through Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York, the Union’s will to fight would have certainly been broken(as well as a significant amount of their capacity to do so). ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/22 "2022-02-09T15:01:08Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > It split the Confederacy in half. That’s what I remember hearing about it’s significants but even in HS I was thinking marching through it is not the same as splitting it in half. In order to split it you have to be able to hold what you took, or else it’s like splitting water which will just come back together again once the knife passed through splitting it. Perhaps water is not the best analogy since part of that march was to destroy transportation infrastructure such as railroads, and not just removing/displacing the rails, but also heating the rails in fire and bending them around a tree trunk to prevent reuse, but it’s still far from actually splitting it. So I agree with others that it was that the Union can freely operate in the south more then splitting it that was the biggie here. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/23 "2022-02-09T15:03:11Z")
The biggest wildcard that could have affected the outcome of the war (and something that the South desperately wanted) was a European intervention. This was never terribly likely – “cotton diplomacy” failed because Britain and France were able to quickly procure other sources of cotton from Egypt and India. And the Emancipation Proclamation reframed the war for European publics as a fight to eliminate slavery. Still, if say Lincoln had bungled the aftermath of the Trent Affair such that Great Britain felt they had to make a show of force to defend national honor, it could have potentially pushed the Union to accept a mediated settlement. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/24 "2022-02-09T15:04:41Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Perhaps the result of winning Atlanta for Lincoln, and that helping Lincoln to win the election, put confidence in Sherman to march (I need to do some further reading on this). No, it’s clear from correspondence that he had been planning the March well before the election. It wasn’t something that could be started without a couple months of planning and logistical work. It was an incredibly bold expansion of the concepts Grant used for the Vicksburg campaign and Sherman took many of those lessons to heart. Some of the reasons for debate were the lateness of the season and the fact that they’d be relying on forage and pillage to keep the troops fed - who set out from Atlanta with less than 2 weeks of provisions. That did not end up being a problem. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/25 "2022-02-09T15:07:36Z")
Well due to Sherman, the Union held both Savannah and Atlanta. The Union could operate in Georgia with impunity now. Couple that with the railroad damage you mentioned, and I think any Confederate supply route between the two halves was over too. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/26 "2022-02-09T15:09:51Z")
Oh yes. Planned before the election, but I’m assuming that the election was assured in Sherman’s mind due to his capture of Atlanta in July. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/27 "2022-02-09T15:16:58Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I’m not American or super knowledgeable in your history so this info is filtered through that lens. I daresay you’re more knowledgeable than many Americans. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/28 "2022-02-09T15:27:33Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m not a military historian but, from what I understand, Sherman’s march is considered a notable military achievement of [maneuver warfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maneuver_warfare) and an early example of [total war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war). Those wiki articles, especially the one on total war, are highly deficient. The only examples they give of total warfare are the Mongols, and next the Sullivan Expedition of 1779? Please! There are innumerable examples throughout history of armies systematically destroying crops, livestock, and buildings, and killing civilians. Not so much in the 18th and 19th century - white Europeans, at least - but generally it’s been far from uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/29 "2022-02-09T15:39:10Z")
My knowledge of the phrase of Total War comes from the [Nazis advocation of it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Plenipotentiary_for_Total_War) (interpreted as the complete use of every civilian in state war efforts). There is a belief that human’s natural state was war, there are no innocents, and winning is everything. This is well after the civil war by now and during a period of time in Europe where wars were very very bloody, all encompassing, and ceaseless. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/30 "2022-02-09T15:48:00Z")
People mention Splitting the Confederacy and wrecking railroads and telegraph lines. But there is little mention of why this is important. Sherman was removing the Souths ability to function as a nation. When you can only travel and communicate at horse speed, you are functionally reduced to a bunch of uncoordinated city-states. Even if they are all the same side, they can’t help each other or even be aware of what’s happening more than a few miles away except at great delay (like weeks or even months later). At t his point, the union can focus the might of an entire nation against just part of a state or region and reduce it methodically without interference from the rest of the confederacy. And Shermans army fed itself on the Souths tab, both denying those resources to the South and demonstrating the Unions immunity to any southern millitary might. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/31 "2022-02-10T03:49:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > So far, no one has found a solution to the hide & seek problem that doesn’t make them look like a villain, to at least someone. Reportedly, among the most effective American-allied units operating in what was then South Vietnam were South Korean soldiers. They were either veterans of the Korean war or had been trained by such veterans with hands-on experience in anti-Communist guerilla tactics. They would go into a village and unapologetically kill villagers one by one until someone talked, and torture information out of anyone identified as Viet Cong. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/32 "2022-02-10T13:07:07Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > There are innumerable examples throughout history of armies systematically destroying crops, livestock, and buildings, and killing civilians. That’s not what I understand total war to be. Total war isn’t _only_ salting the earth and wreaking havoc amongst the civilian population. If that’s the case then every viking raid, every crusade, every massacre of native Americans was total war. It also has to include the total or near-total mobilization of a nation’s economy and population to fight a war. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/33 "2022-02-10T13:41:23Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > My knowledge of the phrase of Total War comes from the [Nazis advocation of it](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Plenipotentiary_for_Total_War) (interpreted as the complete use of every civilian in state war efforts). It’s important to notice when the Nazis decided to attempt total war - less than a year before the end, when the writing was on the wall. “Total War” was something that Germany didn’t want to do, and didn’t think they had to do, to win - it was something that they tried as a last resort. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/34 "2022-02-10T13:55:13Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Reportedly, among the most effective American-allied units operating in what was then South Vietnam were South Korean soldiers. They were either veterans of the Korean war or had been trained by such veterans with hands-on experience in anti-Communist guerilla tactics. They would go into a village and unapologetically kill villagers one by one until someone talked, and torture information out of anyone identified as Viet Cong. Reportedly effective? Any reports on who ended up winning that war? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/35 "2022-02-10T14:06:03Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > It also has to include the total or near-total mobilization of a nation’s economy and population to fight a war. “Total war” has some different flavors. One aspect is the total reorientation of the national economy around the war effort, and another is targeting enemy economic production that equips, pays, and feeds the soldier. Think of grandma’s “victory garden”. That’s total war. Now drop a load of bombs on her house. Also total war. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/36 "2022-02-10T14:13:34Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Reportedly, among the most effective American-allied units operating in what was then South Vietnam were South Korean soldiers. They were either veterans of the Korean war or had been trained by such veterans with hands-on experience in anti-Communist guerilla tactics. They would go into a village and unapologetically kill villagers one by one until someone talked, and torture information out of anyone identified as Viet Cong. I’d like to see a cite for this. Not saying it isn’t true, but its something I hadn’t of heard before. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/37 "2022-02-10T14:23:45Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > and another is targeting enemy economic production that equips, pays, and feeds the soldier. Exactly. And in total war, civilian population centers are converted into that enemy economic production. In your example grandma has become part of the wartime infrastructure. She has a victory garden, she’s buying war bonds, she’s pulling a few shifts a week sewing mittens for soldiers. She’s doing her part. So bombing her house is actively targeting the infrastructure which is supporting the war effort. This is similar to but distinct from “armies systematically destroying crops, livestock, and buildings, and killing civilians,” which has indeed happened over and over again throughout history. I’ve always understood total war to mean a _combination_ of factors. A Roman legion slaughtering cattle, burning fields, and taking slaves in the barbaric outskirts of the empire isn’t engaging in total war because those farmers aren’t part of a unified mobilization to support a military. They’re just doing the same run-of-the-mill, humans-are-the-worst war crimes that we’ve done all throughout our history. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/38 "2022-02-10T14:24:41Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > People mention Splitting the Confederacy and wrecking railroads and telegraph lines. But there is little mention of why this is important. Sherman was removing the Souths ability to function as a nation. When you can only travel and communicate at horse speed, you are functionally reduced to a bunch of uncoordinated city-states. Even if they are all the same side, they can’t help each other or even be aware of what’s happening more than a few miles away except at great delay (like weeks or even months later). At t his point, the union can focus the might of an entire nation against just part of a state or region and reduce it methodically without interference from the rest of the confederacy. And Shermans army fed itself on the Souths tab, both denying those resources to the South and demonstrating the Unions immunity to any southern millitary might Yes, this^^^. When Sherman took Atlanta, he deprived the Confederacy of its ability to quickly move troops and supplies from the east to the west; then as now, Atlanta was a major railroad and logistical nexus (that’s literally the reason for the city’s existence). @silenus is correct, the loss of Vicksburg was the deathstroke for the Confederacy. Fighting in Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania drew a lot of attention, thanks to its proximity to both capitals and the bulk of the nation’s population; but the war was decided in Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/39 "2022-02-10T15:49:30Z")
Help a non-American - why was Vicksburg so important, please? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133/40 "2022-02-10T15:56:19Z")
Loss of Vicksburg meant that the Union had complete control of the Mississippi River - a major route for transportation and commerce. Also cut off Texas from the rest of the Confederacy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shermans-march-to-the-sea-why-so-significant/959133.md?page=3)