# She's not Catholic....she's Christian. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 13, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465 "2005-09-13T19:15:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/41 "2005-09-15T04:36:13Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > I think it’s a very common attitude. And if you think about it, “Protestant” is a very Catholi-centric way of referring to non-Catholic Christians. > > I don’t know of many (if _any_) “Protestants” who would use that word to describe themselves. I do, but since I left the RCC as a protest it’s probably appropriate. However, I do lump all non-Catholic and Orthodox Christian denominations, except the LDS (which **Dangermom** already knows I do not consider Christian at all–sorry ☹ ), together as “Protestant.” It’s both the Catholicentric way I still think and an easy generalization that simplifies conversations by eliminating qualifications. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/42 "2005-09-15T05:07:30Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > except the LDS (which **Dangermom** already knows I do not consider Christian at all–sorry ☹ Not to tangent, but how are Mormons not Christians? I know I said that I don’t think of “Christian” as referring to Mormons, but I still believe they’re Christians, just like Catholics are. Isn’t a Christian anyone who believes in the divinity of Christ? And don’t Mormons believe that? Does the second coming they believe in cancel out their belief in Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/43 "2005-09-15T05:40:38Z")
_One way_ to define Christianity is to base it on the rules issued from the Council of Nicaea. There are a number of beliefs held by the CoJCoLDS and (to a lesser extent) their cousins the Community of Christ (previously, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints), that mainline churches adhering to Nicaea would say are outside the precepts of Nicaea. If one holds to a strict Nicene definition, the LDS (and associated groups), the Unitarians (even before they encompassed the Universalists), and several other groups do not fall within the sphere of Christianity. As an abstruse point of theological discussion, I find the distinctions interesting, but as a way to set barriers between groups, based on who believes which “truth,” I find such distinctions unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/44 "2005-09-15T11:13:30Z")
> [@davenportavenger](#): > > Not to tangent, but how are Mormons not Christians? I know I said that I don’t think of “Christian” as referring to Mormons, but I still believe they’re Christians, just like Catholics are. Isn’t a Christian anyone who believes in the divinity of Christ? And don’t Mormons believe that? Does the second coming they believe in cancel out their belief in Jesus? There are enough differences with the Mormon church and other Christian churches that many Christian churches do not recognize the Mormon church. When my sister (ex-Mormon, like myself) joined the Southern Methodist church, it would not recognize her Mormom baptism and needed to be rebaptised. Apparently it would have recognized baptism from other sects. One example of differences: a core teaching of the Mormon church is that people can become gods and godesses themselves in the next life. This believe is not shared by mainstream Christianity. > [@Asimovian](#): > > Mormons don’t believe in the _same_ Christ that other Christians do This is also another point which some Christian churches have a problem with Mormonism. The Mormon church has a different believe than the traditional Trinity, although in recent years, it’s making some change to apprear more mainstream. For example, the Holy Ghost is now called “God, the Holy Ghost” which was not how the HG was referred to while I was growing up. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/45 "2005-09-15T11:42:29Z")
I’m Greek Orthodox. I’m Christian, not Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/46 "2005-09-15T13:41:00Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > For example, the Holy Ghost is now called “God, the Holy Ghost” which was not how the HG was referred to while I was growing up. Really? I’ve been attending the LDS church for the last 57 years and have never heard this expression. The LDS view of the Godhead can be summed up by our first “Article of Faith.” > [@](#): > > We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/47 "2005-09-15T13:45:59Z")
> [@](#): > > ["You say you’re supposed](http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/7027/quotes.html) to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don’t have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don’t have to be nice to them."–Pat Robertson, The 700 Club, January 14, 1991 > > Pat is a charismatic, Pentecostal Christian (meaning he speaks in tongues and stuff like that), and only believes that you are a Christian if you are “born-again.” This means that all Catholics and most Protestant denominations are out-in fact, not only are they not Christian, they’re downright evil. This quote was brought up in a past discussion of the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/48 "2005-09-15T14:20:39Z")
Emo Phillips covered this one nicely… > [@](#): > > I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,“Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?” He said, “Baptist Church of God!” I said, “Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of God, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of God?” He said,“Reformed Baptist Church of God!” I said, “Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1915!” > > I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/49 "2005-09-15T16:00:33Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I do, but since I left the RCC as a protest it’s probably appropriate. However, I do lump all non-Catholic and Orthodox Christian denominations, except the LDS (which **Dangermom** already knows I do not consider Christian at all–sorry ☹ ), together as “Protestant.” It’s both the Catholicentric way I still think and an easy generalization that simplifies conversations by eliminating qualifications. Personally, I think it’s more sensible to refer to Catholics, Orthodox (both types) Christians, and Episcopalians as “Catholic”, though that would confuse others so I don’t. Both the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Communion refer to themselves as the “One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”, and all these churches I’ve mentioned are part of the historic episcopate (even if the Roman Church dispute’s the Church of England’s claim to it) which seems like a rather important distinction from most Protestant churches. The differences in liturgy amongst Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican churches are small compared to what you see in most Protestant churches, especially when you consider the similarities in practice between Eastern Rite Catholics and Orthodox Christians. There’s so many little churches out there that it’s hard to draw an explicit distinction between Orthodox and Catholic anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/50 "2005-09-15T18:46:36Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > Really? I’ve been attending the LDS church for the last 57 years and have never heard this expression. The LDS view of the Godhead can be summed up by our first “Article of Faith.” Substitute the number 57 with 36 and ditto. Cite Tokyo? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/51 "2005-09-15T18:54:25Z")
Alabama’s last governor, Fob James, also made this distinction (in a news conference while defending creationism no less). “I don’t care if you [sic] a Jew, a Mooze-lum, a Catholic or a Christian, God is God.” ---
**Author:** ![ten9ten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@ten9ten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ten9ten)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/52 "2005-09-15T19:06:52Z")
According to [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) Christian: One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/53 "2005-09-15T19:51:28Z")
That usage bugs me too, and I’m not Catholic. I find that a disturbingly large number of people don’t know the term “Protestant”, so they’re stuck with “Christian” from their word bank. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/54 "2005-09-15T22:25:49Z")
When asked about whether or not a friend of mine was Catholic I rememebr answering no, but he’s the most christian person I know. I suppose that too was incorrect in some ways. I know what I meant of course, but thinking about it now, it would seem to imply that anyone who wasnt Catholic wasnt normally Christian! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/55 "2005-09-15T22:31:50Z")
Yeah, it does sound like it could be a “Restoration Movement” or maybe Pentecostal influence. [digression] And as someone raised in a Campbellite, “Restoration Movement,” no-creed-but-the-Bible church, I just want to say _thanks so much_ :rolleyes: to Wikipedia for sticking the _Mormons_ together with my folks & the Adventists in their organization of Xtian churches. The JW’s I could understand, but the _LDS_?! [/digression] ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/56 "2005-09-16T00:14:19Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Yeah, it does sound like it could be a “Restoration Movement” or maybe Pentecostal influence. > > [digression] And as someone raised in a Campbellite, “Restoration Movement,” no-creed-but-the-Bible church, I just want to say _thanks so much_ :rolleyes: to Wikipedia for sticking the _Mormons_ together with my folks & the Adventists in their organization of Xtian churches. The JW’s I could understand, but the _LDS_?! [/digression] _shrug_ I dunno much about how Wikipedia does things, but LDS are Restorationists (as opposed to Catholic, Protestant, reformists…) and are generally put in with SDAs, JWs, etc. as one of the ‘oddball’ denominations. IIRC, a lot of early Mormons started off as Campbellites. I’m not sure why the Nicene Creed would be a cut-off point for so many people in deciding who ‘qualifies’ as Christian. It’s not scripture, it’s not in the Bible, why does it matter so much? Were 1st and 2nd century Christians not really Christian, since they didn’t have the creeds? I would think that the simple definition above–a follower of Christ–would be good enough. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/57 "2005-09-16T02:46:09Z")
> [@FatBaldGuy](#): > > Really? I’ve been attending the LDS church for the last 57 years and have never heard this expression. The LDS view of the Godhead can be summed up by our first “Article of Faith.” and > [@Reloy3](#): > > Substitute the number 57 with 36 and ditto. Cite Tokyo? With pleasure. [Reference](http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/2005.htm/ensign%20february%202005.htm/visiting%20teaching%20message%20rejoice%20in%20our%20knowledge%20of%20the%20godhead.htm): > [@](#): > > Elder L. Tom Perry of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles: “[Joseph Smith’s] experience clarified for mankind the existence of God the Father, God the Son, and **God the Holy Ghost**. Thus to the world came the vision that three personages comprise this great presiding council of the universe and have revealed themselves to mankind as three separate beings, physically distinct from each other. … The Holy Ghost … is a personage of spirit. The Holy Ghost is a witness of the Father and of the Son declaring to man their attributes, bearing record of the other personages of the Godhead” (“The Articles of Faith,” Ensign, May 1998, 23–24). (bolding mine). Staying awake during meetings? 😃 My still Mormon Mom said that the use of this expression has been within the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/58 "2005-09-16T14:15:57Z")
My apologies, a search of the hundreds of thousands of pages of text at [LDS.org](http://LDS.org) revealed exactly four times the phrase “God the Holy Ghost” in official publications and speeches from Church leaders. One was 7 years ago, 1 was the one you quoted, and once 31 years ago, and once in 1890. All quotes were making the same point - that the Holy Ghost is a distinct personage in the Godhead. (There were a few other instances, but they were all reprinted quotes of the ones mentioned above.) So you are right, Tokyo, the phrase has been used. I still contend, though, that I have never heard the phrase in church or in discussions among members. Maybe I was asleep the 2 times it has been used in front of me in my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/59 "2005-09-16T15:06:04Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > That usage bugs me too, and I’m not Catholic. I find that a disturbingly large number of people don’t know the term “Protestant”, so they’re stuck with “Christian” from their word bank. It’s not that they don’t know the term “Protestant.” It’s that they prefer not to be called by a word which defines them only by their relationship to the Catholic church. Instead, they prefer to define themselves by their relationship (as they understand it) to their deity. Not hard to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465/60 "2005-09-16T15:07:45Z")
(I should add that I don’t know of anyone who gets _offended_ at being called “Protestant.” It’s just not a word that most of them would use to describe themselves.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shes-not-catholic-shes-christian/321465.md?page=4)