# Shibboleth: its a word! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 31, 2007, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792 "2007-12-31T13:09:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Understander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3da27b/32.png) [@The\_Understander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Understander)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/21 "2007-12-31T19:10:50Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] "The story behind the word is recorded in the biblical Book of Judges. The word shibboleth in ancient Hebrew dialects meant ‘ear of grain’ (or, some say, ‘stream’). Some groups pronounced it with a sh sound, but speakers of related dialects pronounced it with an s. In the story, two Semitic tribes, the Ephraimites and the Gileadites, have a great battle. The Gileadites defeat the Ephraimites, and set up a blockade to catch the fleeing Ephraimites. The sentries asked each person to say the word shibboleth. The Ephraimites, who had no sh sound in their language, pronounced the word with an s and were thereby unmasked as the enemy and slaughtered." From here: [Words in English: The Story of the Shibboleth](http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html) [/QUOTE] It’s not just a word… it’s a trap! ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/22 "2007-12-31T19:18:58Z")
From time to time, Sunday School education is useful in the non-religious world. So, yeah, knew it. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/23 "2007-12-31T19:28:33Z")
Trunk’s a word, too. However, I did not know shibboleth was a word, and I have a fairly decent vocabulary of words that would never be used in normal conversation. And, I read Safire. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/24 "2007-12-31T20:24:25Z")
I know the word. Just can’t pronounce it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/25 "2007-12-31T20:29:50Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] Well sure those of us _in the know_ know it…if you don’t know it, you must be an outsider! [/QUOTE] That took me way too long. Never knew it was a word either. Just a Doper I’d been meaning to get to the bottom of one day. The name I mean! Not the Doper! No that there’s anything wrong with that! I mean … Um…brandy anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/26 "2007-12-31T20:33:24Z")
> [@](#): > > "All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’ " He said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. And the moral of this story is, if someone gives you a test like “say ‘crapspackle’!”, try to repeat the word _exactly_ as you just heard it. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/27 "2007-12-31T21:24:54Z")
Yep, an Old Testiment story. I learned it in high school. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/28 "2007-12-31T21:48:52Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] "The story behind the word is recorded in the biblical Book of Judges. The word shibboleth in ancient Hebrew dialects meant ‘ear of grain’ (or, some say, ‘stream’). Some groups pronounced it with a sh sound, but speakers of related dialects pronounced it with an s. [/QUOTE] Okay, so the fact that the doddering old farts who inducted me into the Masonic Lodge had no freakin’ idea that the word “shibboleth” meant “grain” or “stream” in a Semitic language pretty much puts the lie to the whole world domination conspiracy theory, huh? Oh, and “sunrazor” isn’t a word, but “sun” and “razor” are. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/29 "2007-12-31T22:09:06Z")
[QUOTE=Sunrazor] Okay, so the fact that the doddering old farts who inducted me into the Masonic Lodge had no freakin’ idea that the word “shibboleth” meant “grain” or “stream” in a Semitic language pretty much puts the lie to the whole world domination conspiracy theory, huh? [/QUOTE] Thats just what they would like you to think. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/30 "2007-12-31T23:01:00Z")
[QUOTE=WotNot] 4 Jephthah then called together the men of Gilead and fought against Ephraim. The Gileadites struck them down because the Ephraimites had said, “You Gileadites are renegades from Ephraim and Manasseh.” 5 The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he replied, “No,” 6 they said, "All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’ " He said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time. [/QUOTE] I totally thought you had made this quote up. It reads like a Monty Python sketch. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/31 "2007-12-31T23:01:53Z")
[QUOTE=ErinPuff] I learned it from The West Wing (it’s the title of an episode in season 2). [/QUOTE] Me, three. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/32 "2007-12-31T23:05:37Z")
I recall seeing it used in fiction at least once, but incorrectly. As a synonym for nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/33 "2007-12-31T23:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] And the moral of this story is, if someone gives you a test like “say ‘crapspackle’!”, try to repeat the word _exactly_ as you just heard it. [/QUOTE] That would work if not for the fact that, if the phoneme is not present in a language that you learn before you’re two, you’re not going to hear the difference. For instance, English speakers don’t hear the difference between an aspirated and an unaspirated P. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/34 "2008-01-01T02:36:12Z")
Just a point that nobody has mentioned yet, in the ancient Hebrew language the word “shibboleth” means “ear of corn.” Ancient Hebrew workers were paid in grain for their work, so the password is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/35 "2008-01-01T04:13:50Z")
Like so many words, I heard it and had a very vague idea what it meant. So I looked it up, and understood it perfectly. Then I closed the dictionary and five seconds later I realized I had no idea what the word meant. It is in the same league with “ineffable” and “heuristic”. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/36 "2008-01-01T06:54:09Z")
I just learned it. Thanks, SDMB! ---
**Author:** ![Gorgonzola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e480ec/32.png) [@Gorgonzola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgonzola)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/37 "2008-01-01T08:04:07Z")
[QUOTE=Suda] I can live with this, consider ignorance fought! [/QUOTE] And grace won. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/38 "2008-01-02T03:50:32Z")
What did you think it was, a username or something? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/39 "2008-01-02T03:59:20Z")
[QUOTE=ShibbOleth] What did you think it was, a username or something? [/QUOTE] Who? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792/40 "2008-01-02T10:56:40Z")
[QUOTE=Yllaria] That would work if not for the fact that, if the phoneme is not present in a language that you learn before you’re two, you’re not going to hear the difference. For instance, English speakers don’t hear the difference between an aspirated and an unaspirated P. [/QUOTE] Yup, and similarly, just because you heard someone pronounce something doesn’t mean you can do it yourself. In the _Operation Chariot_ raid on St Nazaire during WW2, the British force’s challenge and countersign were “War Weapons Week” and “Welmouth”. Good luck to any German trying to pronounce that even if they found it out. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shibboleth-its-a-word/431792.md?page=3)