# Shin bet to (Ex) pres. Jimmy Carter "Drop Dead!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452 "2008-04-15T15:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/61 "2008-04-16T18:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Speaking of _vile_, this is character assassination of the vilest sort. Carter has only ever sought to promote peace. You may disagree with how he goes about the task, but to suggest that he has some hidden and sinister motive is beyond the pale. What motive, exactly, are you imputing to Carter - an 84-year-old man on the back end of his life and carefully husbanding his legacy? A man who has, more than any other ex-President, devoted his retirement to doing good in the world? A man whose Presidential library (unlike most) isn’t merely a dusty monument to a politician’s ego but an actual working entity, actively promoting democracy? I get mighty fucking sick of this mindset that it’s not possible to disagree with Israeli policy without being an anti-Semite. [/QUOTE] Carter seems to me to be motivated by some religious, millenial concerns when it comes to Israel - note his comments to Golda. Which isn’t surprising as he is devoutly religious. > [@](#): > > “With some hesitation,” Carter writes, “I said that I had long taught lessons from the Hebrew Scriptures and that a common historical pattern was that Israel was punished whenever the leaders turned away from devout worship of God. I asked if she was concerned about the secular nature of her Labor government.” I think he is dissapointed with Israel in its present form, as it does not embody his millenial asperations. Thus it can do no good and must be opposed and criticized at every opportunity. This is I think not “anti semitism” because it really has nothing to do with hatred of Jews - and indeed many Orthodox Jews share this view (that Zionism is basically bad for religious/millenial reasons). But it does call into question his capacity to be objective. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/62 "2008-04-16T18:21:31Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] …It sure would be nice if \*\*Finn \*\* could carry on a discussion on this topic without resorting to personally insulting people, including fellow posters. It would make it, you know, more like a debate. [/QUOTE] Won’t ever happen. When it comes to anything to do with Israel, **Finn** writes _edicts_ from a lofty perch, not posts. Now watch the thunder turn my way… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/63 "2008-04-16T18:21:42Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Carter seems to me to be motivated by some religious, millenial concerns when it comes to Israel - note his comments to Golda. [/QUOTE] Ludicrous (the “millenial” part), if you knew anything at all about the man or his faith. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/64 "2008-04-16T18:24:15Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] But I also recognize that they are in an real existential fight (as oppose to the fake one the Republicans keep telling us we’re in). [/QUOTE] That’s something we could debate (not that I have the expertise, and it would be a hijack anyhow). Nobody in the Middle East represents a real military threat to Israel; Israel would eat their lunch if anyone tried anything overt. The existential threat to Israel is demographic, and they perpetuate it by not cutting loose of the occupied territories. If the Jewish state is destroyed, it will be their own doing. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/65 "2008-04-16T18:24:33Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Ehhhhhhhhhh… it’s a point on which reasonable people could disagree, as long as all of them aren’t up on the facts, I suppose. I fail to see how an organization which has repeatedly and publicly stated that it will never agree to a peace deal, that explicitly, vociferously and organizationally supports genocide, that has a mass program dedicated to indoctrinating children to murder and die in a campaign of genocide… is one that’s open to negotiation. . [/QUOTE] I would generally agree with you. Some may make a plausible argument that negotiating has value nonetheless - I myself don’t buy it, but the argument could be made. I merely contrast this plausibility with the non-plausibility that negotiating a deal with Syria requires Hamas. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/66 "2008-04-16T18:26:17Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Ludicrous, if you knew anything at all about the man or his faith. [/QUOTE] Okay then, enlighten me. You have read the quote - seems to me to be in character with my thesis. If you know better from your personal knowledge of the man, why is a religious or millenial concern with Israel “ludicrous”? Edit: interesting edit to your post. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/67 "2008-04-16T18:27:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] It sure would be nice if \*\*Finn \*\* could carry on a discussion on this topic without resorting to personally insulting people, including fellow posters. It would make it, you know, more like a debate. [/QUOTE] Don’t bother. When **FinnAgain** gets into any Israel- or MENA-related thread, the cause of fighting ignorance and reasoned debate can only be served by ignoring his posts. You know, like when [**brazil84**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459127) appears in any climate-change thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/68 "2008-04-16T18:29:04Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Besides, I’d stack Hoover’s work for peace and international aid against Carter’s - without intending to slight either man. And I will note that the Hoover Institution was founded before Hoover was president, and continues as a vital and interesting part of Stanford University today. [/QUOTE] You forgot to add “controversial” to that last phrase. 🙂 As a side note of trivia: Stanford students affectionately call the building: [Hoover’s Last Erection.](http://www.hoover.org/pubaffairs/brochure/3188286.html) It stands out quite a bit on the suburban (once rural) campus of mostly low-slung buildings. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/69 "2008-04-16T18:31:27Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Okay then, enlighten me. You have read the quote - seems to me to be in character with my thesis. If you know better from your personal knowledge of the man, why is a religious or millenial concern with Israel “ludicrous”? [/QUOTE] I have edited my remark. He obviously _does_ have religious concerns. To characterize those cocerns as “millenial” is the ridiculous part. Do you know [what the word means](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism)? Are you seriously suggesting that Carter is motivated by a belief that he can bring about the return of Christ? Like I said. Ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/70 "2008-04-16T18:32:05Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I think there are enough code words in there so we know what \*\*Finn \*\* is talking about. … [/QUOTE] Oh gimmee a break. No one accused any one of antisemitism here. Only someone “misspeaking” that people are being accused of it and you reading into statements things that were not said nor are part of any “code” I’ve ever heard of. Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/71 "2008-04-16T18:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] That’s something we could debate (not that I have the expertise, and it would be a hijack anyhow). Nobody in the Middle East represents a real military threat to Israel; Israel would eat their lunch if anyone tried anything overt. [/quote] I’m not sure that would be true if the US ceased giving it aid and Iran develops nuclear weapons. > [@](#): > > The existential threat to Israel is demographic, and they perpetuate it by not cutting loose of the occupied territories. If the Jewish state is destroyed, it will be their own doing. Well, that is a different debate, and I don’t want to engage in it here. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/72 "2008-04-16T18:34:38Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Some may make a plausible argument that negotiating has value nonetheless - I myself don’t buy it, but the argument could be made. See, this is my problem here. I don’t see that plausible argument. You’ve said that reasonable people could disagree, and that there is a plausible argument for their position… but what is it? All of the evidence points to Hamas wanting nothing, at all, to do with peace. All of the evidence. Now… sure, we could say that “well, a miracle will occur and Hamas will reform” type arguments are _possible_, but plausible? That’s what I’m asking for here. What piece of evidence, of fact, elevates the ‘a miracle occurs’ argument from a mere pipe dream? I mean, hell… I remember when I was a kid in school doing proofs in math class; from time to time, I knew what the answers were, but couldn’t figure out the steps to get there, for the life of me. I’d almost always simply write out the beginning and end of the proof, with “then a miracle happens” somewhere in the middle. To my mind, the arguments that Hamas will suddenly accept peace have the “then a miracle happens” line in their proof. As I said, I’m willing to accept that this is a _plausible_ rather than simply a (remotely) _possible_ scenario, but as of yet, I’ve seen no real evidence. And I’m not going to dress up blind faith as reasoned disagreement if nobody can actually point out the _reasons_ behind it. I think that’s fair, no? > [@hajario](#): > > If I’m not mistaken, you are the very first person to bring up anti-Semitism in this thread. Nope, you’re not mistaken. This is, IIRC, Play Number 207 in the Israel-Basher’s handbook. If someone like Carter is outed as being a habitual liar, whose lies serve an agenda, and who wants to prop up genocidal rejectionists? Then whoever pointed out those facts also must be a wacko who’ll call anybody an anti-Semite who disagrees with him. It avoids having to discuss the actual meat of the topic (notice, nobody, at all, has yet even _addressed_ Carter’s habit of lying constantly about Israel). It , often, easily switches the debate from whatever its subject was to Israel-Bashers complaining about how very persecuted they are. > [@John Mace](#): > > Just for the record, I have a lot of problems with Israel and the way the US seemingly supports them no matter what. You should know better, John. Really, you should. The US “seemingly supports” Israel no matter what? Where is the official US embassy located in Israel? Jerusalem, or Tel Aviv? Has the US signed off on at least one UN resolution calling settlements illegal? Etc… Yes, the US has a close bond with Israel. Yes, it has supported a great deal of what Israel has done. But come on, no matter what? [QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I think there are enough code words in there so we know what Finn is talking about. [/quote] That’s okay, I’m sure you think a lot of things. Be sure to keep your Decoder Ring out to spot all the other Code that I use. Mwahahah! [QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] It sure would be nice if Finn could carry on a discussion on this topic without resorting to personally insulting people, including fellow posters. It would make it, you know, more like a debate. [/quote] Sure, and as long as you retract all of your mistakes, bit of ignorance, willful distortions of the facts and times when you simply imagined things, I’ll believe that you’re here for, you know, a debate. Why you seem to think that showing how someone’s position is bullshit is somehow out of bounds for a debate, I have no idea. A debate includes refutation and a scrupulous adherence to proof, facts, verification and epistemology. This aint a tea party. [QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] It’s simply not plausible to claim the Israelis didn’t know what was going on. [/quote] And yet, a report that you _just relied on to make your case_ says, clearly, that large elements in both MI and Mossad didn’t “know what was going on.” Again, you have made a massive mistake that is directly contradicted by something you, yourself, cited. It also can’t be out of ignorance, as not only did you cite it, I quoted it to you. You know, for a fact, that not only is it “plausible”, but that the Commission found that exactly that was the case. > [@Sophistry and Illusion](#): > > Robert Fisk notes in \*Pity the Nation \* (I know you won’t accept him as a source, but if you can quote the Jewish Virtual Library, I can quote Fisk) Actually, you’ve invented that fiction, too. I quoted the Commission’s report, which happened to be housed on the JVL. I did not, at any point, quote the JVL. As for what Fisk claims, it’s interesting that the very document you offered as some sort of definitive cite.. makes no mention of such a claim. Surely something that was public knowledge and not, ya know, _made up_ would’ve wound up in the Commission’s findings. And speaking of bullshit, Fisk is a [fucking 9/11 Truther](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/robert-fisk-even-i-question-the-truth-about-911-462904.html) Interesting, of course, how you quickly ditched what you were claiming was a cite that supported your position, neglected to retract any of your mistakes… and now cite a 9/11 truther as an authority. Of course, aside from the fact that the man is a raving loon, there’s his tendency to [make shit up](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1062) wrt Israel. As you apparently have no desire to play straight, and your posting has now devolved into standard Pit level posting, I’m done playing your game. I’ve fought your ignorance and anybody reading along can make up their own minds whether you’re talking facts or bullshit. [QUOTE=spoke-] Speaking of _vile_, this is character assassination of the vilest sort. [/quote] Ah, yes, we reach the stage in the debate where folks [just start inventing definitions for words.](http://www.sundials.org/about/humpty.htm)“Character assassination” doesn’t mean “relating facts”. It just doesn’t. [QUOTE=spoke-] Carter has only ever sought to promote peace. You may disagree with how he goes about the task, but to suggest that he has some hidden and sinister motive is beyond the pale. [/quote] What bullshit is this? An habitual liar, with a political agenda, who attempts to give power to genocidal rejectionists is working for _peace_? What Orwellian twisting of language are you using whereby Carter’s lies, designed to strip Israel of its ability to defend itself, are actually in the service of “peace”? You do know that, just like character assassination has its own definition, you can’t substitute “the peace of the grave” for “peace”. Sorry, no. This kind of bullshit may fly over beers in a pub, but it shouldn’t in GD. It never fails to amaze me that a certain faction will, almost without fail, look at someone’s PR and take that at face value, as long as the PR is for the “right” side. To claim that _any_ supporter of Hamas wants peace, _as long as they’re not too damn ignorant to participate in an informed debate_, is laughable. It’s like saying that someone can want the KKK to become a major part of American politics, but they want racial harmony. Some people are Useful Idiots who support yet another genocidal, Jew-hating regime, and are honestly baffled at why supporting a group bent on genocide might put paid to claims that they want peace. But hey, looking at someone in context, his habits, goals, lies and reasons for lying is beyond the pale in your view. Spinning a debate with politically motivated, counterfactual bullshit is beyond the pale, in mine. We’ll just have to agree to disagree. [QUOTE=spoke-] I get mighty fucking sick of this mindset that it’s not possible to disagree with Israeli policy without being an anti-Semite. [/QUOTE] Holy shit, we actually got to the second page before the Israel-Bashing-Brigade actually brought up that canard. I’m impressed. Of course, you totally made that up and I challenge you to find a single person, anywhere, who has actually said that any and all criticism of Israel is “anti-Semitic”. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/73 "2008-04-16T18:39:32Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] I have edited my remark. He obviously _does_ have religious concerns. To characterize those cocerns as “millenial” is the ridiculous part. Do you know [what the word means](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennialism)? Are you seriously suggesting that Carter is motivated by a belief that he can bring about the return of Christ? Like I said. Ludicrous. [/QUOTE] I know exactly what “millenialism” means, thank you. 🙂 Fact is, evangelicals (such as Carter) are split into at least two camps on the role of Israel in the “end times”. Many, as is well known, _support_ Israel and Zionism, because they see it as part of the millenial plan. Others are more like Orthodox Jews - they _oppose_ Israel. Carter is in the latter camp. Obviously Carter is not motivated by a belief that he, personally, can bring about about the Millenium, any more than Orthodox Jews who oppose zionism believe that they can bring on the messiah. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/74 "2008-04-16T18:42:35Z")
[QUOTE=Malthus] Fact is, evangelicals (such as Carter) are split into at least two camps on the role of Israel in the “end times”. Many, as is well known, _support_ Israel and Zionism, because they see it as part of the millenial plan. Others are more like Orthodox Jews - they _oppose_ Israel. Carter is in the latter camp. [/QUOTE] As noted, I haven’t yet read his book – what reason do you have to think Carter’s position on Israel-Palestine has anything to do with any eschatalogical aspect of his religious beliefs? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/75 "2008-04-16T18:48:27Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] As noted, I haven’t yet read his book – what reason do you have to think Carter’s position on Israel-Palestine has anything to do with any eschatalogical aspect of his religious beliefs? [/QUOTE] Well, for one, his quoted statements to that effect: > [@](#): > > “With some hesitation,” Carter writes, “I said that I had long taught lessons from the Hebrew Scriptures and that a common historical pattern was that Israel was punished whenever the leaders turned away from devout worship of God. I asked if she was concerned about the secular nature of her Labor government.” [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/07/AR2006120701835.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/07/AR2006120701835.html) Combine this with his book (which makes no particular bones about his mission) and his lifelong devotion to Christian Evangelism, the thesis is inescapable. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/76 "2008-04-16T18:50:14Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] … I mean, hell… I remember when I was a kid in school doing proofs in math class; from time to time, I knew what the answers were, but couldn’t figure out the steps to get there, for the life of me. I’d almost always simply write out the beginning and end of the proof, with “then a miracle happens” somewhere in the middle. To my mind, the arguments that Hamas will suddenly accept peace have the “then a miracle happens” line in their proof… [/QUOTE] 🙂 For me it was Organic Chem in college but the trick was to evoke an enzyme to do it. I’d make the plausible argument that Hamas gets talked with precisely because they are the enemy. No miracles will happen here but “understandings” can occur. Meanwhile I’m counting down to **Tom** pulling out his whistle … ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/77 "2008-04-16T18:59:12Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Sure, and as long as you retract all of your mistakes, bit of ignorance, willful distortions of the facts and times when you simply imagined things, I’ll believe that you’re here for, you know, a debate. Why you seem to think that showing how someone’s position is bullshit is somehow out of bounds for a debate, I have no idea. A debate includes refutation and a scrupulous adherence to proof, facts, verification and epistemology. This aint a tea party. [/quote] I’m not willfully distorting anything here, and for you to continue to keep accusing me of intentional dishonesty poisons the well and precludes honest debate. So knock it the fuck off, or fuck off out of this thread. > [@](#): > > and yet, a report that you _just relied on to make your case_ says, clearly, that large elements in both MI and Mossad didn’t “know what was going on.” Again, you have made a massive mistake that is directly contradicted by something you, yourself, cited. It also can’t be out of ignorance, as not only did you cite it, I quoted it to you. You know, for a fact, that not only is it “plausible”, but that the Commission found that exactly that was the case. Now you are equivocating. Even if intelligence and Mossad didn’t predict the massacre, what I was saying in the passage you quoted is that while the massacre was going on, the IDF knew it was going on. Quit distorting what I’m saying. > [@](#): > > As for what Fisk claims, it’s interesting that the very document you offered as some sort of definitive cite.. makes no mention of such a claim. Surely something that was public knowledge and not, ya know, _made up_ would’ve wound up in the Commission’s findings. And speaking of bullshit, Fisk is a [fucking 9/11 Truther](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/fisk/robert-fisk-even-i-question-the-truth-about-911-462904.html) Interesting, of course, how you quickly ditched what you were claiming was a cite that supported your position, neglected to retract any of your mistakes… and now cite a 9/11 truther as an authority. Of course, aside from the fact that the man is a raving loon, there’s his tendency to [make shit up](http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=6&x_article=1062) wrt Israel. Again, misrepresenting what I am saying. I didn’t cite the Kahan report as a definitive source, as you claim. Nowhere did I make that claim. You know, it’s possible that there’s more than one source of information out there. > [@](#): > > As you apparently have no desire to play straight, and your posting has now devolved into standard Pit level posting, I’m done playing your game. I’ve fought your ignorance and anybody reading along can make up their own minds whether you’re talking facts or bullshit. Please. I’d love to see you leave this thread. In case you hadn’t noticed, everyone here is engaging in more or less calm debate. You are frothing at the mouth, accusing people of lying, and in general being a pain in the ass. You contribute little except to ratchet up the level of anger. I was posting in a perfectly calm manner until you came in here like a maniac flinging accusations like a chimp flinging its own shit. Christ, dude, you really need to dial it back several notches, if for no other reason than that people might actually take you seriously if you did so. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/78 "2008-04-16T19:02:08Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Oh gimmee a break. No one accused any one of antisemitism here. Only someone “misspeaking” that people are being accused of it and you reading into statements things that were not said nor are part of any “code” I’ve ever heard of. Sheesh. [/QUOTE] Okay, then perhaps you should explain what \*you \* think \*\*FinnAgain \*\* means when he accuses Carter of having a “real, and a vile, agenda to peddle.” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/79 "2008-04-16T19:07:38Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] Okay, then perhaps you should explain what \*you \* think \*\*FinnAgain \*\* means when he accuses Carter of having a “real, and a vile, agenda to peddle.” [/QUOTE] I took it as he meant that Carter would like to see Israel disappear. Anti-Semitism didn’t even occur to me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2008, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452/80 "2008-04-16T19:09:02Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] I took it as he meant that Carter would like to see Israel disappear. [/QUOTE] Does anything in Carter’s book support **that?!** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shin-bet-to-ex-pres-jimmy-carter-drop-dead/445452.md?page=5)