# Ship/Country Gender **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 31, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861 "2009-10-31T16:56:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/1 "2009-10-31T16:56:12Z")
I know there are many more animate and inanimate objects with gender differences, but it has always interested me, that ships are referred to as “He” while country is called “The Motherland” (feminine). In Germany, I’m not so sure (although I _should_ be). While I know country is “The Fatherland” (masculine), there seems to be some debate as to whether ships were referred to as “he” (Hitler era) or “she” (pre-Bismarck? - that’s my uncertainty). So I was wondering: Since we’re an international internet community here, can someone shed some light on this and share some other gender nuances? Thanks Q ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/2 "2009-10-31T17:08:06Z")
In Spanish some countries are “he” (USA, Brazil, Japan…) and some are “she” (Spain, France, China…). And some appear to be “it” (I sure can’t come up with another gender for Portugal). The word “patria” is short for “tierra patria”, “land of your foreparents;” “tierra” is a she-word, therefore “patria” is a she-word and produces “la madre patria” (the mother-country) and “la patria chica” (the home-region within the home-country). Some Latin American people refer to Spain as “la madre patria,” meaning not so much “my motherland” but “the land which is the mother of my own homeland.” Ships can be male or female; small ones often have female or humorous names (from “Mary Jane” to “Big Ship” - and it’s three meters long). A barca is smaller than a barco; lifeboats are the “barcas salvavidas” (lifesaving boats) of a barco. Lanchas, fragatas, carabelas are girls; portaaviones, destructores, petroleros are boys. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/3 "2009-10-31T17:48:17Z")
I once worked for about a week with a Greek guy and he (speaking in English) would call everything “he” rather than “it”. “This new cellphone, he is very fast, yes?” “Your application, you can make him faster?” I presume this to be how it is said in Greece. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/4 "2009-10-31T17:49:57Z")
When I was a navy enlisted guy, the officers would have us use “she,” but between ourselves the ship was “it,” as it also was among the officers. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/5 "2009-10-31T18:00:32Z")
Hm. Bulgarian is a gendered language. Ship (korab/кораб) is masculine, but boat (lodka/лодка) is feminine. Bulgarians refer to Bulgaria as their motherland. Well, not very often, but it’s in the national anthem. My guess is that it has to do with Bulgaria being a feminine word. Like, a literal translation of the sentence “it is a pretty country” would be “she is a pretty country.” Getting my students to stop writing stuff like that was much harder than I expected. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/6 "2009-10-31T19:19:00Z")
I heard somewhere, maybe on _Saturday Night Live_, that the U.S. is definitely male. Look at Florida… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/7 "2009-10-31T19:31:53Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > … > > In Germany, I’m not so sure (although I _should_ be). While I know country is “The Fatherland” (masculine), there seems to be some debate as to whether ships were referred to as “he” (Hitler era) or “she” (pre-Bismarck? - that’s my uncertainty). > > … The term “fatherland” is neuter in German (because the main part is the neuter “land” i.e. "that land which is our fathers’ " rather than “that father who is our land”). Ships are universally female in German nowadays but there was an usage until the early 20th century by which an exception was made according to the ship’s name: a very _macho_ name like “Deutscher Adler” or “Hindenburg” led to a large part of speakers using the male gender. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/8 "2009-10-31T19:32:15Z")
You and **Johnny L A** and **Lib** , man! We seem to “connect” on that same “satirical” level! Given that “Florida” reference, I remember a stand-up comic’s routine about why T-Rex was so friggin’ mean! His short arms wouldn’t let him reach his “Johnson” when he needed to "get off’!😃 Good to have you back on the Dope, dear friend! Quasi ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/9 "2009-10-31T19:39:47Z")
> [@tschild](#): > > The term “fatherland” is neuter in German (because the main part is the neuter “land” i.e. "that land which is our fathers’ " rather than “that father who is our land”) Yes! See, _that_ was my “problem”! **Being** Half-German (notice all the capitalizations?) I can _speak_ the language fluently, and put my sentences _together_ correctly (all the genders, perfectly!), but don’t often understand the _grammar_. It’s just “by rote”, I guess. Does that make sense? Thanks! Quasi “das” Modem!😉 ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/10 "2009-10-31T19:40:24Z")
> [@Quasimodem](#): > > I know there are many more animate and inanimate objects with gender differences, but it has always interested me, that ships are referred to as “He” while country is called “The Motherland” (feminine). I’m an American-born speaker of English and I’ve never heard of the practice of referring to ships as “he.” In all the literature I’ve read, ships have been referred to with feminine or neuter pronouns. The Associated Press Stylebook did (and still does, for all I know) specifically instruct journalists to use neuter instead of feminine pronouns for ships – the idea of using masculine pronouns isn’t even entertained. Apparently, the [U.S. Navy Style Guide](http://www.navy.mil/submit/view_styleguide.asp?sort=H) (who knew?) still calls for feminine pronouns for ships, but not for countries. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Quasimodem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodem)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ship-country-gender/515861/11 "2009-10-31T20:33:07Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > I’m an American-born speaker of English and I’ve never heard of the practice of referring to ships as “he.” In all the literature I’ve read, ships have been referred to with feminine or neuter pronouns. The Associated Press Stylebook did (and still does, for all I know) specifically instruct journalists to use neuter instead of feminine pronouns for ships – the idea of using masculine pronouns isn’t even entertained. > > Apparently, the [U.S. Navy Style Guide](http://www.navy.mil/submit/view_styleguide.asp?sort=H) (who knew?) still calls for feminine pronouns for ships, but not for countries. I _think_ the film, _The Hunt for The Red October_, is the first time I ever knew that the Russians referred to their ships as “he” **TWDUKE** , therefore my post/question. Very interesting, your AP reference!🙂 I never knew that! THANK YOU! Quasi